Justus II
General Staff
Big Iago said:
Yes, that has been discovered, and fixed, in the latest update!
One of the infamous 'unintended consequences' of an earlier fix. At least Carthage would have a harbor for that town! 
The Ancient Mediterranean MOD (TAM)
- Thread starter thamis
- Start date
Yes, that has been discovered, and fixed, in the latest update!
One of the infamous 'unintended consequences' of an earlier fix. At least Carthage would have a harbor for that town! onedreamer
Dragon
Hi, this is a great mod , gratz on the makers !
I played several games with the same version that had the boat-instead-of-spy bug... can't remember what version right now and can't check it
What I liked the most is the true feel of history that you get playing the game... every civ is very different and that's also very cool.
I wanted to point out that Israel is IMO too weak. Every game I played with them (several...) they were the weakest civ. . They expand and research very slowly, especially if you consider they border with Egypt (=> agricultural, high expansion... and thanks to the Sphynx they have a great research boost too).
Other bugs I noticed in this version (don't know if they were mentioned):
- Industrious ability doesn't seem to work with Despotism... I can't understand why.
- The Clear swamp action is miscalculated in the game... again I can't understand why.
- Republican Legion enslaves to Imperial Legion !! O_o big bug but easily fixed
- No Tech gives the ability to safely traverse ocean, which means on random maps with continents, there will never be commerce between the 2 continents. If I remember well, according to the Civilopedia either Navigation or Exploration should give this ability... but they don't in the version I downloaded.
Lastly small feedback, not really a bug, about swamps&marsh :
They are not a big deal in the scenario maps, but on random map they are elements of big unbalance. Any civ placed around Equator is going to have a too tough game: marshes CANNOT be cleared in any way... and there are way too many of them around
swamps can be cleared only with Architecture, definitely too late for a civ born around Equator... also 40 base turns to clear it is too high, especially when it doesn't seem to work well ingame.
Personally I made marshes the same as swamps and gave the clear swamp ability with Pottery. I also reduced the turns needed to clear them.
Again, grats on your mod and keep up the great work !
I played several games with the same version that had the boat-instead-of-spy bug... can't remember what version right now and can't check it
What I liked the most is the true feel of history that you get playing the game... every civ is very different and that's also very cool.
I wanted to point out that Israel is IMO too weak. Every game I played with them (several...) they were the weakest civ. . They expand and research very slowly, especially if you consider they border with Egypt (=> agricultural, high expansion... and thanks to the Sphynx they have a great research boost too).
Other bugs I noticed in this version (don't know if they were mentioned):
- Industrious ability doesn't seem to work with Despotism... I can't understand why.
- The Clear swamp action is miscalculated in the game... again I can't understand why.
- Republican Legion enslaves to Imperial Legion !! O_o big bug but easily fixed
- No Tech gives the ability to safely traverse ocean, which means on random maps with continents, there will never be commerce between the 2 continents. If I remember well, according to the Civilopedia either Navigation or Exploration should give this ability... but they don't in the version I downloaded.
Lastly small feedback, not really a bug, about swamps&marsh :
They are not a big deal in the scenario maps, but on random map they are elements of big unbalance. Any civ placed around Equator is going to have a too tough game: marshes CANNOT be cleared in any way... and there are way too many of them around
swamps can be cleared only with Architecture, definitely too late for a civ born around Equator... also 40 base turns to clear it is too high, especially when it doesn't seem to work well ingame.Personally I made marshes the same as swamps and gave the clear swamp ability with Pottery. I also reduced the turns needed to clear them.
Again, grats on your mod and keep up the great work !
TAM 2.4 has the no-spy bug in it. Just edit the biq files to have the Foriegn Ministry produce spies. We just recently discovered it ourselves. I haven't traced it back yet but am fairly certain i know what caused it.
Israel: hey... somebody has to be the weakest
Industrious: Despotism workers work at 50% efficiency. It may be that you expect 100% as in the epic game. I'll look into it though.
Swamps replace and have similar chacteristics as jungle for the epic game. Again, i'll look into it but i think the worker action is set higher than the epic.
Republican Legionary 'enslave to': didn't know about this one till just now. It's caused by the same thing that caused the no-spy bug. Just change it to barbarian archer. Should probably chack all the other enslave to units... i think they got moved down the list by 2 or 3.
Oceans: I suspect the civilopedia you have is just using the navigation entry from the epic game. Personally, i think it adds some realism to a random map game. We'll discuss this but i wouldn't count on ever seeing ocean trade in TAM.
Marsh: For TAM 2.5 (soon to be released), marsh will have a move cost of 2, provide 2 food, allow wheeled units & roads, clay & papyrus, no cities. I recognized the problem but don't want to over compensate yet. I'll look into using 2 different worker actions for marsh/swamp but remember this is an ancient age mod. I'm not sure how much terraforming was done back then.
There will be at least 1 more patch after 2.5 is released to clear up some of these nagging details after some feedback.
Any further suggestions/observations/bugs let us know, please
Israel: hey... somebody has to be the weakest
Industrious: Despotism workers work at 50% efficiency. It may be that you expect 100% as in the epic game. I'll look into it though.
Swamps replace and have similar chacteristics as jungle for the epic game. Again, i'll look into it but i think the worker action is set higher than the epic.
Republican Legionary 'enslave to': didn't know about this one till just now. It's caused by the same thing that caused the no-spy bug. Just change it to barbarian archer. Should probably chack all the other enslave to units... i think they got moved down the list by 2 or 3.
Oceans: I suspect the civilopedia you have is just using the navigation entry from the epic game. Personally, i think it adds some realism to a random map game. We'll discuss this but i wouldn't count on ever seeing ocean trade in TAM.
Marsh: For TAM 2.5 (soon to be released), marsh will have a move cost of 2, provide 2 food, allow wheeled units & roads, clay & papyrus, no cities. I recognized the problem but don't want to over compensate yet. I'll look into using 2 different worker actions for marsh/swamp but remember this is an ancient age mod. I'm not sure how much terraforming was done back then.
There will be at least 1 more patch after 2.5 is released to clear up some of these nagging details after some feedback.
Any further suggestions/observations/bugs let us know, please
MasterKazoom
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2004
- Messages
- 13
hi there,
I just played my first few successful games of civ3, TAM. I'm a complete newbie so I uploaded my latest save file for you to critizise and utterly rip apart Don't hesitate to give me your advice. If this shouldn't have been posted here, I'm sorry but I couln't think of any other forum, as the TAM doesn't have its on here.
YOU CAN OPEN THIS WITH THE LATEST VANILLA PATCH AND TAM INSTALLED. I HAVE NO IDEA IF MY GERMAN VERSION OF THE GAME GIVES YOU ANY CRASHES, I HOPE NOT.
The situation is as follows:
I'm playing the Medes, starting on the southern coast of the big continent. The continent actually consists of 2 indipendent isles, but the water bridge between them is so tiny that I refer to them as one continent.
Anyway, I have a good start on the southern part, completely besettling it (except for a little region westwards, its completely covered in jungles and bushes and I was way to lazy to completely clear it). I teched galleys pretty fast, getting a good hold on the northern part of the main continent, which was habited by three other nations as well. I began to cultivate the western jungles, eventually finding a roman settlement there. Someone was faster than me, then. He only got one settlement, I took the rest of the land. I defeated 2 tribes on the northern continent, having easy access to iron. I attempted to wipe out the Galliers, but that proved to be almost impossible. They, as the only other nation, had some iron in their possession. I stormed them with my longswordmen, taking around 50% of their cities. Unfortunately, their widespread settling and later advancement in tactical means stopped my storm. In the end I only had around 10 longswordmen left, which was not sufficent. I signed a peace treaty (getting a hefty bonus, my assistant insisted that I still had the strongest army, whatever). Throughout the whole game I had the most money, science, land possession and military units. Most civs are either polite or annoyed with me, except for the galliers of course, who are furious. I'm a bit nonplussed on what to do - rebuild my army to finally take over the galliers, or just play on the good ol' diplomatic victory? Tell me my flaws!
http://members.tripod.de/MasterKazoom/medes.SAV
I just played my first few successful games of civ3, TAM. I'm a complete newbie so I uploaded my latest save file for you to critizise and utterly rip apart
Don't hesitate to give me your advice. If this shouldn't have been posted here, I'm sorry but I couln't think of any other forum, as the TAM doesn't have its on here.YOU CAN OPEN THIS WITH THE LATEST VANILLA PATCH AND TAM INSTALLED. I HAVE NO IDEA IF MY GERMAN VERSION OF THE GAME GIVES YOU ANY CRASHES, I HOPE NOT.
The situation is as follows:
I'm playing the Medes, starting on the southern coast of the big continent. The continent actually consists of 2 indipendent isles, but the water bridge between them is so tiny that I refer to them as one continent.
Anyway, I have a good start on the southern part, completely besettling it (except for a little region westwards, its completely covered in jungles and bushes and I was way to lazy to completely clear it). I teched galleys pretty fast, getting a good hold on the northern part of the main continent, which was habited by three other nations as well. I began to cultivate the western jungles, eventually finding a roman settlement there. Someone was faster than me, then. He only got one settlement, I took the rest of the land. I defeated 2 tribes on the northern continent, having easy access to iron. I attempted to wipe out the Galliers, but that proved to be almost impossible. They, as the only other nation, had some iron in their possession. I stormed them with my longswordmen, taking around 50% of their cities. Unfortunately, their widespread settling and later advancement in tactical means stopped my storm. In the end I only had around 10 longswordmen left, which was not sufficent. I signed a peace treaty (getting a hefty bonus, my assistant insisted that I still had the strongest army, whatever). Throughout the whole game I had the most money, science, land possession and military units. Most civs are either polite or annoyed with me, except for the galliers of course, who are furious. I'm a bit nonplussed on what to do - rebuild my army to finally take over the galliers, or just play on the good ol' diplomatic victory? Tell me my flaws!
http://members.tripod.de/MasterKazoom/medes.SAV
Justus II
General Staff
watorrey said:Israel: hey... somebody has to be the weakest
Industrious: Despotism workers work at 50% efficiency. It may be that you expect 100% as in the epic game. I'll look into it though.
...
Any further suggestions/observations/bugs let us know, please
As for Israel, we did make a change to improve their starting terrain slightly (not sure which version), but as long as they block Egypt off, they can do quite well, if they trade contacts quickly they can be a good tech broker. I've even seen the AI expand Israel througout the Arabian peninsula.
The Industrious problem is actually due to a 'bug/feature' in C3C. In TAM Despotism (as in Anarchy in normal civ) ALL workers work at 50% normal speed, just like slaves. The Industrious bonus does not take effect until you get to a better form of government (one of the reasons we've updated Thing Law and Theocracy to have normal worker speeds). So it's intentional, in a way. Despotism is supposed to give you the equivalent of Anarchy-speed or slave workers, and in normal civ, that means 50% base, with no Industrous bonus.
Watorrey has been working the Swamp/Marsh issue, and I think he's got a good compromise worked out, as he stated. Hopefully that will be sufficient.
onedreamer
Dragon
Just my few consideration:
- Ocean: I may agree that oceans shouldn't be safely traversable during these times, but in this case I'll point out that there shouldn't even exist any ocean tile in this scenario. The Mediterranean sea was the major trade route in this age, traversed back and forth all the time, the control of these routes has been the cause of most wars, and actually the civ who on turns controlled part or most of them have been the most powerful/rich in the ancient indoeuropean era. There shouldn't be ocean tiles in the Mediterranean ^^
- Marsh: there was a lot of terraforming going on in the ancient age actually... especially with flood plains (Egyptians) and swamps. Actually I wouldn't keep both marsh and swamp terrain types in the scenario because in these areas of the world there weren't/aren't enough of them to justify the amount of swampy terrain that shows up in a random map... after all it shouldn't be a world map but an ancient med. map ... even if random
- Unit bugs: I know that the spy and enslave are easily corrected with CivEdit(which is what I did)... but I thought I'd rather point it out here so that they are corrected in the retail version ^^. The only enslavement bug I found was the one of the Republican Legion. All the others were ok.
- Depotism and Industrious. I understood the issue, still it's not a fair condition for industrious civs. Is there not a way to set workers speed at 50% without tagging them as slaves ?
- Ocean: I may agree that oceans shouldn't be safely traversable during these times, but in this case I'll point out that there shouldn't even exist any ocean tile in this scenario. The Mediterranean sea was the major trade route in this age, traversed back and forth all the time, the control of these routes has been the cause of most wars, and actually the civ who on turns controlled part or most of them have been the most powerful/rich in the ancient indoeuropean era. There shouldn't be ocean tiles in the Mediterranean ^^
- Marsh: there was a lot of terraforming going on in the ancient age actually... especially with flood plains (Egyptians) and swamps. Actually I wouldn't keep both marsh and swamp terrain types in the scenario because in these areas of the world there weren't/aren't enough of them to justify the amount of swampy terrain that shows up in a random map... after all it shouldn't be a world map but an ancient med. map ... even if random
- Unit bugs: I know that the spy and enslave are easily corrected with CivEdit(which is what I did)... but I thought I'd rather point it out here so that they are corrected in the retail version ^^. The only enslavement bug I found was the one of the Republican Legion. All the others were ok.
- Depotism and Industrious. I understood the issue, still it's not a fair condition for industrious civs. Is there not a way to set workers speed at 50% without tagging them as slaves ?
Justus II
General Staff
Ocean: Even the Mediterranean Sea includes some 'Ocean' tiles, which represent treacherous areas or spots far from Island coasts. I see that as the dangers of storms, even in the Med, there were many examples of fleets lost at sea. As to the Med, I agree there were great trade ROUTES, the charted passages that traders used, which would be following the SEA tiles! If you decide to deviate from the routes, to take a shortcut into unkown (OCEAN) waters, you take your chances! As for how it affects the Random map, well, its.... Random. TAM really works best on the historical maps, but if you use it on Random, you will get some other affects. The fact is, with the level of technology involved in the TAM era, maintaining trade between different continents would be problematic at best. There have been some archeological theories about Roman and Phoenician ships reaching the 'New World', but nothing proven, and certainly it would be a hazardous journey (i.e. sucicide ships), not something sustainable (such as a trade route).
Swamp: This is also, I think, an unfortunate consequence of playing TAM on a random map. One solution might be to play it with Arid settings, which would reduce the swamp/marsh (or jungle, which is what it replaces). Certainly the flood plains can be irrigated, and marshes CAN be cleared, but only after the appropriate techs. Otherwise, not much that can be done.
Workers: It's not a matter of tagging them 'slave', it's just setting the base worker speed to 1 for a government has that effect. Think of it as the despotic form of government hiding their true industrious nature, until they develop a more organized form of government! It's designed to encourage the player to move more quickly into either Theocracy or Thing Law, that's why we increased worker speed in both of the Mid-Ancient governments to normal speed.
Swamp: This is also, I think, an unfortunate consequence of playing TAM on a random map. One solution might be to play it with Arid settings, which would reduce the swamp/marsh (or jungle, which is what it replaces). Certainly the flood plains can be irrigated, and marshes CAN be cleared, but only after the appropriate techs. Otherwise, not much that can be done.
Workers: It's not a matter of tagging them 'slave', it's just setting the base worker speed to 1 for a government has that effect. Think of it as the despotic form of government hiding their true industrious nature, until they develop a more organized form of government!
It's designed to encourage the player to move more quickly into either Theocracy or Thing Law, that's why we increased worker speed in both of the Mid-Ancient governments to normal speed.Sword Dancer
Chieftain
Bug report
C3C 1.22, TAM 2.4
Played Egypt for the first time, and despite the writeup of them being immune to floodplain-caused disease, my cities were constantly losing population due to that very cause.
C3C 1.22, TAM 2.4
Played Egypt for the first time, and despite the writeup of them being immune to floodplain-caused disease, my cities were constantly losing population due to that very cause.
Sword Dancer
Chieftain
Suggestion for Egyptian Civ-Specific Wonder
African Circumnavigation
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/exploration.htm
African Circumnavigation
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/exploration.htm
I would propose that this voyage become possible after the advent of the Nile Trireme, and not necessarily give a bonus to ship movement or combat, but instead either increase the happiness bonus of luxuries empire-wide, by say 25% to reflect Egypt cornering the market -or- provide a 3% return on gold in the treasury to reflect the increased prosperity brought by exotic trade.
Sword Dancer said:
This was fixed to be as good as it gets at some point though i forget when.
http://www.tam.info.ms/ and make sure you have the 2.4 patch/update, or in post #827 (i think) of this thread.
Early in the game they get hit by it and there is no way to turn it off completely but it goes away after a while. If you are getting it in all your cities, every turn, mid game, you need the update.
GeneralBender
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 14
i dont kno if someone had already mentioned this, but, i was playing the fertile cresent scn., (i was the minoans)), ibuilt the fire catapult and attacked the Lydians, and the game quit saying, (i dnt remember exactly), that the sound file for it was missing
which version?
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
With Kinboat's Ramses out, I suspect the new patch is not far behind.....
It's gonna be a complete version because an update wasn't all that much smaller. Should be a couple days
GeneralBender
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 14
it said for version 2.4, but on the scn. select screen it says on the description, : Fertile Cresenct 2.3
GeneralBender
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2004
- Messages
- 14
watorrey said:It's gonna be a complete version because an update wasn't all that much smaller. Should be a couple days
YeS yEs YeS
, have you guys thought of making specific scn. together???
I'm not sure what the problem is unless you got an old download. If the fire catapult is causing problems, make sure you have all the C3C patches and that TAM is installed in the conquests\conquests folder.
Scenarios are alot of work and require in depth historical knowlege to set up properly using the TAM ruleset. Several players have started some but we never hear back from them. Actually, you can think of TAM as just a big scenario
Scenarios are alot of work and require in depth historical knowlege to set up properly using the TAM ruleset. Several players have started some but we never hear back from them. Actually, you can think of TAM as just a big scenario
Sword Dancer
Chieftain
I too just had a game exit to windows because it could not locate the catapult.ini file, or somesuch. I should have written down the entire message, I know, but I had forgotten.
C3C 1.22, TAM 2.4
C3C 1.22, TAM 2.4
All it does is reference the Fire Catapult in the Rise of Rome folder. It needs to be in the conquests folder thus: conquests\conquests\tam 2.2 and the Rise of Rome folder needs to be intact/unmodified. It won't work from the conquests\scenarios folder.
That's about all the help i can give without a specific error message.
That's about all the help i can give without a specific error message.
