The Ancient Mediterranean MOD

[The Last Conformist]

The eastern Romans adopted heavy cavalry from the Sassanids.

I think we should stay away from the words "chivalry" and "knight" - they don't belong to the period. Cataphract-style heavy cavalry, OTOH, were very much in use in late Antiquity.


For the eastern med and the middle east, a three-tier cavalry succession would make sense: horse archers -> heavy cavalry -> armoured cavalry.

In the west, cavalry was never particularly important during the period. The easiest thing would be letting them follow the eastern path as a what-if thing (this may be necessary for gameplay anyway), but place could hopefully be found to include some specials like Numidian and Gothic mounted javelineers.


It's worth noting that in late Antiquity, steppe nomads like the Sarmatians fielded cataphract-style armoured cavalry in addition to traditional horse archers.

 

[thamis]

Guys, the whole discussion on the Etruscan heroes is pointless, since Etruria is out of the MOD anyway.

Chivalry/Cavalry: You are right, Chivalry is the wrong word. Yet, the chivalric tradition was already present with the Goths, and, to a lesser extent, with the Germanic tribes. The word is medieval, but what it describes dates back much longer.

 

[thamis]

Just so you guys know what I have been working on instead of TAM... First draft:

 

[Sword Dancer]

spelling error found

This made it possible, as the newspaper wags but it, to get “a bigger bang for buck.”'9

Also, is the omission of the word 'the' in that quote intentional? The usual expression is 'a bigger bang for the buck'.

Aside from those two points, I can't see any grammatical or spelling errors!

 

[thamis]

Hey, you read it.

Yea, I found those two errors already. Thanks though.

 

[Sword Dancer]

I couldn't help but to catch those errors -- it's what made me a damn good HTML and ASP QA guy in my day.... too bad I don't know a thing about XML or Python, or I'd be offering those services to the team...

 

[thamis]

Karghath, how far are you with your unit list?

 

[Spirit_Viriato]

News, news, of my Iberian Units ;

( PART II, when i finish all the part I upload and "arhive".rar, with all parts (Civilipodia of all Units, Civilopedia of Iberian, Images of Units, Images of Structures, And ideas of tactics and strategy), I think that it will be better for you Thamis).

I found new images of infantery units (Scutarii basic with iberian sword (falcata), and Scutarii Lancer) . We can observe the characteristic crest again whereupon bronze helmet is adorned. On the other hand, we can once again observe the slight great shield in the lancers that I posted in previous post.
Since already there am saying, since in the infantry the use of the crest was not general and for a greater variety in the units I consider that it would be had to clear the crest like in the first image.

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/iberian-falcata/iberian-sword.jpeg
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5631/asturesesperando7oe.jpg
http://img197.exs.cx/img197/1979/miliciayscutarii0qg.jpg
http://webs.ono.com/usr019/neostein/images/aIberoElefante.jpg
http://ttd.cache.el-mundo.net/larevista/num119/imagenes/iberos.jpg

ATTENTION

If finally the religion is implemented, in Iberia the druids ones (women and men) assumes that they would have the aspect of this image:

http://www.aceros-de-hispania.com/image/iberian-falcata/iberian-falcatas.jpeg

In the image of Angus McBride a ceremony is reconstructed in which a soldier asks for the blessing for his falcata before an altar. The soldier takes typical the pectoral one, this one of round type and very decorated, with a lynx head, an original feline of Spain of a great beauty. The soldier also carries a leather helmet, grebas of bronze and a wide bronze belt also of which the case of the íbera falcata hangs.

----------------------------------------------------------------------​

I found a very miserable representation of the leader Indibil:

Then a bit of the SPECIAL UNIT "Iberian Slingers"

The arm:

I'm writing a extense civilopedia of this slingers ( I have a disperse information in catalan and spanish).

 

[thamis]

Cool thanks. A final archive would be great!

 

[lifeaquatic]

Seems to me you can advance past the industrial age even into the modern age. What gives? This really should be called a beta and posted in the creation forum like everyone else.

 

[MourinhoPortuga]

Great job guys, i'm very impressed!

Specially by the spanish dude whose uses a Portuguese legend "Viriato" as his nickname.

So are there any rough deadlines planned for all this to be finished, 1 month, 6 months, a year and so on?

Good luck, keep up the awesome work!

 

[wolfman1234]

After a hard and risky travel to Delphi, I have asked, and the gods have replied to me.....

TAM will be released.....
...when "they" finish it.

Bah...these gods.

 

[thamis]

Seems to me you can advance past the industrial age even into the modern age. What gives? This really should be called a beta and posted in the creation forum like everyone else.

No mod is ever finished.

 

[thamis]

After a hard and risky travel to Delphi, I have asked, and the gods have replied to me.....

TAM will be released.....
...when "they" finish it.

Bah...these gods.

ROFL!

Well, I'd say the tech tree and units will be done within 1 month, which would constitute the framework of what this is supposed to become to be standing.

Then comes the fine-tuning.

 

[Ankenaton]

Original Post:

Heroes (not implemented yet)
- Babylon: Sargon II (Archer)
- Gaul - Brennus (Gallic Swordsman)
- Mycenae - Achilles (Phalanx)
- Rome - Scipio (Legionary)
- Scythia - gotta check my Herodotus (Horse Archer, of course) ... Herakles was sugested...
- Etruria - Thefarie Velianas (Swordsman)
- Egypt - Ramses II (War Chariot)
- Iberian Tribes - Indibil (Slinger)
- Germanic Tribes - hmm... easy to find one (Berserk)
- Carthage - Hannibal (War Elephant)
- Lydia - gotta check my Herodotus (Light Cavalry)
- Phoenicia - ? (Phoenician Trireme)
- Getae - Zalmoxis (Falxman)
- Persia - Xerxes (Immortal)
- Medes - Cyaxares (Searman)
- Britons - Boudicca (Axeman)
- Kolchis - Artag (Bronze Swordsman)
- Macedonia - Alexander (Heavy Cavalry) - King will be Philip II
- Illyria - Glaucius or Bardylis (?)
- Nubia - Heru (?)
- Berber - Antaios (Archer)
- Goths - Theoderich (Huskarl)

My opionated choices:

Babylon -- As others have said, I don't like Sargon, since he was Assyrian. Nabopolassar if you count the Chaldeans (see post above).

Gaul -- Brennus is good

Mycenae -- Achilles is fine if you want mythology. I'd give a slight preference for Heracles for a Pelopennesain hero, many historical figures to choose from (Themistocles, Pericles?)

Rome -- Scipio is good, lots of choices

Scythia -- I'm not sure whom you are using as the 'main' leader. Can use Partatus, or Madyes. Heracles is a complex choice, as ancient myths wind in and out of each others.

Huns -- I assume Attilla is the overall leader, can try Ruga or Kama

Egypt -- The best military leader Egypt ever ahd probably was Thutmosis III.
Not sure whom the overall leader is (Hatshepsut was his father's wife but not his mother). Ramses II was probably overrated but not a bad pick if Thutmosis is the 'overall' leader. Amenhotep II was a great ruler!

Iberia -- It looks like you are in better hands here than anything I can add!

Germans -- If you are going to make the Goths a seperate faction, both Theodoric and Alaric should be Goths. For mythology it should be Sigurd or Sigfried (Norse of Gerrman). For real life there are a lot of choices. If you count Franks, Clovis is a good pick. Gaiseric the Vandal may have been the most successful German leader. Not sure who your 'overall' leader is?

Carthage-- I assume Hannibul (Barca) isn't the overall leader? As a general, he is tough to beat!!

Lydia -- I assume Croesus is the ovearll leader? Maybe Gyges, who made them into a military power.

Phoenecia -- If Hiram is the overll leader, maybe Abibel of Tyre as the hero. There are a LOT of great Phoenician scientists (Thales of Miletus, Pythagoras).

Getae -- Zalmoxis is fine if you use mythology (more of a god, though). Burebista was a famous king. If he is the overall king, Dromihete is a good choice, who defeated Lysimmachus.

Persia -- Hmm, not much of a Xerxes fan, he LOST afterall! If Cyrus is the overall king, I'd go with Darius the First. He lost also (Marathon campaign) but was a tremendous military leader.

If you want a 'hero' as oppsoed to a king, its tough to beat Zopyrus. According to Herodotus, when Darius I tried to take the walls of Babylon, Zopyrus cut off his nose and ears, pretended to be an escaped slave beaten by Darius. Babylon gave him control of some of the army, and there was an elaborate plan that the Persians would run away. Of course, he eventually betrays the city to the Persians.

Media -- Cyaxeres was their greatest king. Who is the overall leadser (Dioces?)

Britons -- Well, there are more capable ones than Boudiccea, but she is a good choice

Kolchis -- are we looking at the later period (Artag), or ancient Kolchis, which is ethnically probably Georgians. Artag would be more associated with Easstern Iberia. Maybe have Armenia (Urartu) if we want an ancient presence, but are they too close to Assyria/Babylon?

Macedon -- Hard to argue with Alexander!

Illyria -- Bardyllis is a good choice (he's not the overall leader?) Glaucius is also good, who reformed an Illyrian kingdom against the Diodachi.

Nubia -- ??

Berbers -- ??? (Antaeus I would say is Libyan. If you want to include Libyans, we have Shoshenk who conquered Egypt (is he the overall leader?)

Goths -- Theodoric is good.

Oh, I missed the Etruscans. Lars Porsenna maybe, Tarquin the Great?


Anyway, just my $.02

Best wishes,

Breunor

I would prefer Thutmoses over Rameses II. Rameses II gets all of the good press. Thutmoses, Amenhotep II, Shmenkaare, are to me better choices than Rameses II. As for Nubia - Heru is an excellent choice and so is Pi-Ankhi. Either would be suitable.

 

[Ankenaton]

@Writing/Alphabet debate:
The Alphabet, by definition, is a phonetic way of writing. Each letter (or certain letter combinations) correspond to a spoken sound.

You can write without an alphabet, as the Chinese still do, for example. Each Symbol represents a word, and symbols can be combined to make new meanings.

Just a few examples:
Alphabets: Latin, Cyrillic, Greek, Arabic
Symbols: Chinese, Hieroglyphs

Cuneiform is somewhere in between, as each letter represents a syllable.

Thus, historically, writing was developed before the alphabet.

@Babylonia/Assyria:
Yes, Assyria was the bigger and more important empire. Babylon, though, had a stronger impact on human history and is still remembered -- everywhere. Babylon was not only one of the most important cities thoughout history, it has also gained symbolic status as a signification of all civilization (as in reggae songs).

For the purpose of TAM, I would rather go with civilizations that are known than with civilizations that were good militarily, but didn't leave a big mark on human history.

@Kolchis/Urartu:
I would love to include Urartu, as it was more important than the semi-mythical Kolchis that I refer to (I'm thinking Golden Fleece here). Two problems with Urartu:
1) It's very hard to find any distinctly Urartian cities.
2) The land where they lived is completely mountaneous, which in CIV just doesn't work

In Reggae songs and Rastafari culture in general, Babylon is symbolic of civilization but with a very negative connotation attached to it. Babylon = Evil, and/or all of the negative effects of civilization and humankinds separation from God.

 

[wolfman1234]

In Reggae songs and Rastafari culture in general, Babylon is symbolic of civilization but with a very negative connotation attached to it. Babylon = Evil, and/or all of the negative effects of civilization and humankinds separation from God.

I think its more becouse Rome as the capitol of the "civilized world" became to be considered in ancient times as The New Babylon.

 

[Karhgath]

Karghath, how far are you with your unit list?

Mostly done, without UUs tho. I've got a lot of promotions too. Still need a couple, and especially a naming scheme. I still need to compile the final list, but the end of semester is really sucking a lot of my time, as I just finished writing my short movie script and I still need to do an script analysis on the movie Short Cuts. Everything should be done tomorrow.

I'll try to post everything sunday, if not, it's going to be delayed until wednesday, as I have have tons of stuff to do in the mean time: office party, hockey game, exams, etc.

Nothing is implemented tho, and hardly playtested, but I carefully did it on paper, with the help of the nice combat analysis some people did. We'll see how it plays out. If I have the time I will implement it myself in xml, but if not someone else will at least be able to do it.

 

[Polietileno]

I hope that you guys are dividing the Meele Category for units into pure Meele units and Polearms. I think is a good idea to put in diferente categories the Gallic Swordsman and the Phalanx, as an example. Same thing with Calvary, having a Heavy line and a Light line. Just my 2 cents.

BTW, I think that this Mod in Civ4 is going to be much more better that the C3C versión, not only because of realism, also because of the flexibility that the game has.

 

[Karhgath]

@Polietileno

The units are divided into Light units(archers, skirmishers), Medium (Swordsman, Axeman), Heavy(Spearman, Pikeman), Light Cavalry (Horse Archer), Heavy Cavalry (Cataphract).

So yeah, we did just that =)