The answer is in the wonders?

[SkippyT]

We discovered the Wrighting Machine (is this the name in english?). The photography. The airplane. Brazil is famous in all world because of our culture. In the 60s, Brazil has been turned in "the great tropical country". We have more history than anyone thinks, including me and any history teacher, brazilian or not. We discovered a lot of illnesses (is this the name...?) and the cure for a lot of them.

Hey, what did u sad?

Photography was invented by the French and the airplane was invented by the Americans.
Let's just add Argentina, Columbia, Cuba, Thailand, Jamaica, Malaysia, Indonesia and others because they are tropical countries, shan't we?

I am totally against the idea of Brazil because..it's like..nothing. Sure Brazil is cool, yay! You have the Amazon forests and birds and bees, you have carnivals, you have soccer, you have hot chicks and so on.

I've read Brazil's wikipedia page and nothing quite stands out. Yay! There was an empire..Portugal was conquered by Napoleon. Brazil has been a republic for 150 years. Brazil is developing fast. Many people live in the cities near the coast. The Amazon forest is dying...

All I say is "no".

 

[Yanez]

its very hard to put a modern south american civ because there is always going to be people that oppose that specific civ. If they were gonna add brasil than the rest would be unhappy, if they were to add La Plata than the rest would be unhappy etc. The only solution would be to add

La Plata-Chile,Argentina,Paraguay,Uruguay
Brasil-Brasil
Bolivarian empire or something- The rest of the South American countries

This way all 10 major countries in S.A get represented.

 

[SkippyT]

its very hard to put a modern south american civ because there is always going to be people that oppose that specific civ. If they were gonna add brasil than the rest would be unhappy, if they were to add La Plata than the rest would be unhappy etc. The only solution would be to add

La Plata-Chile,Argentina,Paraguay,Uruguay
Brasil-Brasil
Bolivarian empire or something- The rest of the South American countries

This way all 10 major countries in S.A get represented.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I've read Brazil's wikipedia page and nothing quite stands out. Yay! There was an empire..Portugal was conquered by Napoleon. Brazil has been a republic for 150 years. Brazil is developing fast. Many people live in the cities near the coast. The Amazon forest is dying...

ooh... America was not conquered by anyone (yet)... America has been a republic for 150 years... America is starting to lose development... many people live in materialistic wasteful ignorant-of-starving-world rich cities (where even the homeless get better food from the trash than most people in the world)... the American invasion-of-Iraq is dying out...



well, point is, well, i hope my made my point (though don't think i hate America like the Extremists or anything )

can you say anything else about La Plata and Gran Columbia? your response shoulod be very very similar to what you said about Brazil.

 

[bode404]

Photography was invented by the French and the airplane was invented by the Americans.
Let's just add Argentina, Columbia, Cuba, Thailand, Jamaica, Malaysia, Indonesia and others because they are tropical countries, shan't we?

I am totally against the idea of Brazil because..it's like..nothing. Sure Brazil is cool, yay! You have the Amazon forests and birds and bees, you have carnivals, you have soccer, you have hot chicks and so on.

I've read Brazil's wikipedia page and nothing quite stands out. Yay! There was an empire..Portugal was conquered by Napoleon. Brazil has been a republic for 150 years. Brazil is developing fast. Many people live in the cities near the coast. The Amazon forest is dying...

All I say is "no".

For the airplane thing, I repeat the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santos_Dumont
It's controversial, but you must admit at least that Santos Dumont had his merit.

For the rest of your post... Ok, I dont expect everyone to think that Brazil is great. However, at this point, there are not many choices of "great" civs to be added.
Many people point Polynesia. I dont know much about it, and nothing that would make me say "Wow, great one!". No prejudice, it's only an opinion. But I wouldnt find a terrible idea if they were in.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

For the airplane thing, I repeat the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santos_Dumont
It's controversial, but you must admit at least that Santos Dumont had his merit.

This is what I find particularly interesting:

Editors’ Note: The claim to the first flying machine is still the arena for disputes about definitions, facts, and merits. These polemics are often fueled by strong nationalistic or cultural feelings.

 

[SkippyT]

ooh... America was not conquered by anyone (yet)... America has been a republic for 150 years... America is starting to lose development... many people live in materialistic wasteful ignorant-of-starving-world rich cities (where even the homeless get better food from the trash than most people in the world)... the American invasion-of-Iraq is dying out...



well, point is, well, i hope my made my point (though don't think i hate America like the Extremists or anything )

can you say anything else about La Plata and Gran Columbia? your response shoulod be very very similar to what you said about Brazil.

Okay. Our Earth is dominated by America. All the media, computer games, internet, modern culture etc etc etc etc is American.
oh, and America is the world's superpower. That must stand for something, doesn't it? America has been the world's Rome for 50 years. And about America's wasteful living and that. All the civs in the game have been like that. No exception. The exception would be the Sioux, if they'd be added.
America is the most powerful nation in the modern world and can in no way be compared to Brazil, besides the fact that they are both in the new world.
I cannot think of one civilization that has altered my life more than America (with the obvious exception of Vikings, since I belong to their civilization). The TV I watch, the computer games I play, the computer in front of me, the Internet I'm on right now and the music I listen to.

By the way, America is 50 years older than Brazil Not that it matters.

 

[Yanez]

^agree.

Sure Brasil has a very unique culture but most countries do, nothing special for Brasil.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Okay. Our Earth is dominated by America. All the media, computer games, internet, modern culture etc etc etc etc is American.
oh, and America is the world's superpower. That must stand for something, doesn't it? America has been the world's Rome for 50 years. And about America's wasteful living and that. All the civs in the game have been like that. No exception. The exception would be the Sioux, if they'd be added.
America is the most powerful nation in the modern world and can in no way be compared to Brazil, besides the fact that they are both in the new world.
I cannot think of one civilization that has altered my life more than America (with the obvious exception of Vikings, since I belong to their civilization). The TV I watch, the computer games I play, the computer in front of me, the Internet I'm on right now and the music I listen to.

i know, i know, i was just slightly overexaggerating with a slight anti-American bias, to make my point. slight.

my point is not that if America is in so is Brazil, i just think your reasoning is not reasonable, thats all.

however, abuot America being wasteful and stuff. it is ridiculous, in my opinion, heck more than any other civ. seriously, of course all powers waste and take things for granted. but i just think the Americans are kinda stretching it too much. people throw entire meals in the trash just becuase it tastes okay and doesn't taste delicious. that just shocks me, and that is one of the reasons why people originally were weary of the US before the Iraq war and that mess.

however, don't think i hate America like the extremists or anything, im just weary of it. anyhow, this is getting off topic, and im starting to ramble again...

now back to topic - do wonders give hint to civilizations?

i don't think wonders necessarily hint what civilizations will be in. in Civ3 - Copernicus' Observatory, but no Poles. in Civ2, there was a Magellan's Expedition but no Portugese. i think the wonders could be a hint Firaxis finally is getting less "westerno-centric", and perhaps that will lead to more diverse civiliations in later versions of the game.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Did you know that the Romans used to cause themselves to throw up halfway through a dinner party so they'd have room to eat more? Yes, it's true! (I bet we could all do without that bit of knowledge... Gluttony at its worst.)

Being wasteful is not a relevant issue to inclusion as a civ.

 

[cybrxkhan]

look, and we just got pretty much all the historical world powers in the game. now its finding, as one person put it on some thread, "the most obscure ethnic minority" in the world. maybe not to that level, but certainly many civs could be game.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Did you know that the Romans used to cause themselves to throw up halfway through a dinner party so they'd have room to eat more? Yes, it's true! (I bet we could all do without that bit of knowledge... Gluttony at its worst.)

Being wasteful is not a relevant issue to inclusion as a civ.

well, of course wasteishness is not important.

well, at least the Romans did something with the food.

 

[Bushface]

A joke I was told years ago in Rio de Janeiro :-
One of the archangels was looking at the world God had made, and said "Brazil ? Why have you given it the biggest river, the biggest forest, and so many diamonds and other minerals it's just not fair !" And God replied "Wait till you see the people I'm putting there."

 

[SkippyT]

Did you know that the Romans used to cause themselves to throw up halfway through a dinner party so they'd have room to eat more? Yes, it's true! (I bet we could all do without that bit of knowledge... Gluttony at its worst.)

Being wasteful is not a relevant issue to inclusion as a civ.

Anyway. Back on topic for me.
I don't think the wonders are a sign of the remaining civs. Like many have pointed out, civs that built certain wonders in previous games have maybe not been in the game as a civ, but has been represented by those wonders. I would love to see a Polynesian civ, but I believe it won't be in.
I wouldn't be surprised if there wouldn't be a south east Asian would not be in, either. The remaining civs could easily just be something like Hittites, Austria and Poland. Nothing exotic or exciting..

 

[cybrxkhan]

i think out of the EUropean civs Austria has the best chance, because it was a "secret civ" in Civ3 conquests (it was a locked/hidden civ). but we already have two european civs, a two new European leaders (if Pericles counts), so im a bit doubtful of that.

 

[bode404]

A joke I was told years ago in Rio de Janeiro :-
One of the archangels was looking at the world God had made, and said "Brazil ? Why have you given it the biggest river, the biggest forest, and so many diamonds and other minerals it's just not fair !" And God replied "Wait till you see the people I'm putting there."

This is a famous joke here, and it holds true.

And for the American thing... I didnt say Brazil should be in because USA is! Of course the US are waaay greater and more influential than us

America is the most powerful nation in the modern world and can in no way be compared to Brazil, besides the fact that they are both in the new world.

I didnt want to compare! Of course the US should be in, not only for commercial purposes. Unfortunately, I cant expect the same for Brazil

And concerning wastes, China under Mao Zedong, for example, was a country which wasted people.

 

[cybrxkhan]

And concerning wastes, China under Mao Zedong, for example, was a country which wasted people.

thats true... thirty million under the most conservative estimates were dead... i consider him the worst tyrant in history... also wasted four thousand years of cultural development and culture during the "cultural" revolution...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Romans sometimes used the vomitorium between each course, not just one halfway through the meal. In the nicer homes, that could mean 20 or 30 times during dinner.

 

[kdaag]

anyhow, i wouldn't say that the addition of wonders guarantees a civilizations inclusion. look at civ3 - there was Copernicus' Observatory, but no Poland, for example.

Well most historians outside Poland consider Copernicus to having spoken german as his native language. His mother was definately german and his father was most probably a germanized slav (which does not equate to Polish but more probably to Masurian, or possibly baltic Prussian) He was born in Thorn which was then a german speaking city belonging to the german speaking Kingdom of Prussian, although this was in turn a fief of the Polish Kingdom at this time in history this meant little in practize.

The fact that he speant many years in Krakow teaching means nothing as the educational language at the time was latin and hence there are no surviving records of him being able to speak Polish.

So having Copernicus observatory in the game is no reason to have Poland, it's already covered by the German civ...

(I'm sure I'm going to get lots of angry messages from Poland now as this is probably like swearing in church but 19th or early 20th century nationalism is a thing of the past and in todays multicultural world it shouldn't matter what ethnicity a man in the mediaeval ages was. It didn't matter then and it shouldn't matter now!)

 

[Archduke Otto]

You're right there. Copernicus was 'germanic'. But who cares? He lived a long time before national / ethnical definitions became all too important for people.

Of course, nowadays people fight countless wars about the heritage of famous people.

Beleive me, I know French people who claim Chopin was one of them. I know Czechs who claim Thomas Mann for themselves.

And I know Swiss, who think that Einstein is Swiss...