"The Art of War" Mod Ideas Thread

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

This is just a little something I've been working on for quite a while. It's doubtful that I'll ever complete it anytime soon (since I'm quite busy these days), but any of you are free to use these ideas (just give me a little credit ).

The "Art of War" mod is centered on the five major nations of East Asia - China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and Tibet. The scenario starts at the Post-Neolithic period. This is a bit of an anachronism as several of these nations only really became settled much later (While China was already a major power, Japan didn't really have major cities until the establishment of Heijo-kyo in the Nara Period around the 8th century CE). However, this is a "what-if" scenario in the sense that all of these civilizations start off with the potential of being truly dominant forces in the region. The scenario starts in the Post-Neolithic period to the mid 18th century (before European contact with East Asia further increased and before the time the Asian powers began to decline). Like the Mesoamerica Scenario made by Firaxis, the object is to build a powerful unified civilization capable of withstanding European invasion.

Note that there are a bunch of anachronisms. This is because of two reasons 1) each of the civilizations were incredibly unique and developed and flourished in their own ways (although they influenced each other in many ways), thus it would be impossible to be completely historically accurate; and 2) this is a "What-if" scenario.

What will be historically and culturally accurate (to a greater degree) are the unique units, wonders, and some of the city names. For example, China starts out with Xianyang (near what is now Xi'an), the capital of the Qin Dynasty (the dynasty that unified China), and Korea will be the only civilization to build Changdeokgung Palace.

Here are some of the specifics:

Civilizations
China
Ruler: Qin Shi Huangdi
Capital: Xianyang
Unique Units: Qin War Chariot (thanks a hundred times BeBro ), Zhuge-nu Repeater Crossbow, Tang Cavalry (big thanks to Dom Pedro ), and Ming Zhanmadao Swordsman (if anyone would ever make this )
Unique Tech: The Middle Kingdom
Unique Wonder: The Forbidden City

Japan
Ruler: Empress Suiko
Capital: Nara (technically, it should be Heijo-kyo, but I haven't decided if I should use Nara or Heijo-kyo)
Unique Units: Bushi, Yari Samurai, Sohei, Ashigaru Musketmen
Unique Tech: Bushido
Unique Wonder: Himeji Castle

Korea
Ruler: King Sejong
Capital: Seoul (technically should be "Hanyang," if I recall correctly; again, haven't decided yet...)
Unique Units: Hwarang, Koryo Horse Archer, Kobukson, Hwach'a
Unique Tech: Korean Ingenuity
Unique Wonder: Changdeokgung Palace

Mongolia
Ruler: Genghis Khan Temujin (we really really need a better Genghis Khan leaderhead )
Capital: Karakorum (I'm not knowledgeable in Central Asian and Mongolian history, so correct me if I'm wrong)
Unique Units: Nomadic Raider, Mongol Light Cavalry, Turkic Auxillary (representing the Mongol willingness to recruit local soldiers), Keshik
Unique Tech: The Mongol Horde
Unique Wonder: The Mongol Horde

Tibet
Ruler: King Songsten Gampo
Capital: Lhasa
Unique Units: Mountain Warrior, Himalayan Raider, Tibetan Horse Archer, Kagyu Warrior Monk (according to one of my sources, the Kagyu sect trained themselves as martial artists and warriors)
Unique Tech: Tibetan Mysticism
Unique Wonder: The Potala Palace

Great Wonders
Wan Li Chang Cheng
Pyramid Tomb of Emperor Qin
Sunzi's "The Art of War"
The Sutra Translations
The Silk Road
Daibutsu
The Treasure Fleet

Small Wonders
Jingdezhen Porcelain Artisans
The Imperial Examination
Sacred Mountain Shrine
Grand Pagoda

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Land Units
Post-Neolithic/Bronze Age
Warrior
Mountain Warrior (Tibetan UU)
Bronze Infantry
Bronze Spearman
Archer
Horseman
Qin War Chariot (Chinese UU)
Nomadic Raider (Mongol UU)

Iron Age
Swordsman
Pikeman
Crossbowman
Cavalry
Zhuge-nu Repeater Crossbowman (Chinese UU)
Bushi (Japanese UU)
Mongol Light Cavalry (Mongol UU)
Himalayan Raider (Tibetan UU)

Middle Ages
Infantry
Heavy Cavalry
Tang Cavalry (Chinese UU)
Yari Samurai (Japanese UU)
Sohei (Japanese UU)
Koryo Horse Archer (Korean UU)
Turkic Auxillary (Mongol UU)
Tibetan Horse Archer (Tibetan UU)

Imperial Age
Ashigaru Musketmen (Japanese UU)
Ming Zhanmadao Swordsman (Chinese UU)
Musketman
Hwach'a (Korean UU)
Keshik (Mongol UU)
Kagyu Warrior Monk (Tibetan UU)

Sea Units
Sampan
War Galley
Fanchuan
Baochuan
Kobukson (Korean UU)

 

[RedAlert]

This would definately be worthy of the title 'conquest' when completed.

I like the idea very much, you've already got me hooked!

I can't really give any more feedback at the moment other than my support, but if I feel I might be able to help with anything would that be alright? (If you would need help, that is)

btw, would this be the purpose behind your asian city graphics?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

btw, would this be the purpose behind your asian city graphics?

That's partly the reason.

 

[Nwoll]

i would love to play this mod if you made it, great idea!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

My main area of study is China and Japan, so when it comes to Korea, Mongolia, and Tibet, my knowledge is a bit lacking. So I need a bit more information.

 

[RedAlert]

Say, Ogedei..... would you happen to need a map for this?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Kind of been a while, but I've finally got around to getting back to work on this.

Figuring out the unit line has been extremely difficult because each of these civilizations have very different and unique histories. Thus it's practically impossible to make it completely historically accurate.

Anyway, this is what I have for China so far:

China:

Infantry (Offensive)
Stone Axeman -> Bronze Infantry -> Iron Swordsman -> Zhanmadao Swordsman (if anyone ever makes that unit )

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Zhuge-Nu (Chinese UU) -> Fire Lancer (Chinese UU)

Infantry (Defensive)
Bronze Spearman -> Iron Pikeman -> Halberdier

Cavalry
Horseman -> War Chariot (Chinese UU) -> Tang Cavalry (Chinese UU)

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Fanchuan

Navy (War)
War Junk -> War Tiger (Chinese UU)

I noticed that Dom Pedro's "Hun Infantry" unit carries something reminiscent of a Guandao or a Pudao. I think I might use that as a Halberdier unit.

 

[RedAlert]

I think it's fine if it's not completely historically accurate. The way I see it, different things will probably be researched at different times in the game anyway, most likely not at the exact same times or in the same order as in history. But as long as you provide and implement the advancements as accurately as you can, then any inaccuracy will probably not be noticable.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you working on this again. I'm no expert, but I'd say the unit lines look great.

 

[Master Kodama]

Wow, now this is A LOT like the East Asia mod I was working on way back in the day.... I'd like to see this come to fruition.

By the by, "Ghengis" (or whatever) should probably be "Chinggis," as in "Chinggis Khan Temujin."

Also, I'm pretty sure Japan's early gunpowder units weren't so much Musketmen as Arquebusiers -- as was true in most places. The standard Civ3 "musketman" is pretty much an arquebusier itself anyway.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Info on Tibetan military history is extremely sparse. Anyone know a site, book, article, etc. that sheds a bit more light on Tibet's ancient arsenal?

 

[Master Kodama]

Just a minor suggestion... try eliminating the suffix "Bronze" and "Iron" -- and probably "Stone" as well -- as much as possible. For example, you could have an offensive infantry line that looked something like this:

Warrior/[Stone] Axeman -> Militia -> Swordsman -> Infantry

Thus, Militia instead of "Bronze Infantry/Swordsman." Or, in theory you could switch it around, making Swordsman the bronze unit and Militia the iron-weilding unit, but I'd personally recommend against it.

Sorry I don't have any info on Tibet. Wish I did, it's a fascinating region.

 

[RedAlert]

You could try asking about Tibet (and anything else you need to know) in the Research Q&A thread

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Just a minor suggestion... try eliminating the suffix "Bronze" and "Iron" -- and probably "Stone" as well -- as much as possible. For example, you could have an offensive infantry line that looked something like this:

Warrior/[Stone] Axeman -> Militia -> Swordsman -> Infantry

Thus, Militia instead of "Bronze Infantry/Swordsman." Or, in theory you could switch it around, making Swordsman the bronze unit and Militia the iron-weilding unit, but I'd personally recommend against it.

Sorry I don't have any info on Tibet. Wish I did, it's a fascinating region.

The names aren't set in stone yet. I'm working on figuring out names for generic units (units that all civs build). The "Bronze Infantry" is actually that "Shang Soldier" unit. Since there are already so many UUs, I probably might have each civ have a unique unit line. Perhaps name the 'Bronze Infantry' something like "Shang Axeman" (that unit wields an axe, if I recall correctly) for China, "Choson Infantry" (the earlier Choson period) for Korea, or "Yayoi Warrior" for Japan.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Bronze swords aren't very effective; in the West, they were mostly only used in short stabbing versions before the advent of iron. I'd suspect something similar applies for East Asia.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Bronze was used for all sorts of weapons in Asia ranging from short swords to heavy axes.

I've gotten around to doing some more research on Tibet and I've finally come up with more specific names for Tibetan units - a Ke Tri Swordsman and a Khampa Raider.

Ke Tri (also called "patang") is a type of Tibetan longsword. "Khampa" refers to the eastern tribesmen of Tibet, who are known for being the toughest of Tibetan tribes.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Some changes to the unit lines:

China:

Infantry (Offensive)
Axeman -> Shang Axeman -> Swordsman -> Zhanmadao Swordsman (Chinese UU; if anyone ever makes that unit )

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Zhuge-Nu (Chinese UU) -> Fire Lancer (Chinese UU)

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Halberdier

Cavalry
War Chariot (Chinese UU) -> Tang Cavalry (Chinese UU) -> Heavy Cavalry

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Fanchuan

Navy (War)
War Junk -> War Tiger (Chinese UU)

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

Tibet:
*The Khampa are a tribal people from Tibet's Kham region are known for being the toughest warriors in all of Tibet. They are famous for their marksmanship and horsemanship (and they certainly gave the Chinese a lot of trouble throughout Tibet's history as a military power! ). Tibetan Khampas also served various Mongol armies.

Infantry (Offensive)
Himalayan Warrior (Tibetan UU) -> Infantry -> Ke Tri Swordsman (Tibetan UU)

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Composite Bowman (Mongols and Tibetans only) -> Khampa Archer (Tibetan UU)

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Tibetan Warrior Monk (Tibetan UU)

Cavalry
Horseman -> Himalayan Raider (Tibetan UU) -> Khampa Tribesman (Tibetan UU)

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Galley

Navy (War)
War Galley

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

More unit lines. Note that each civ has 6 UUs.
*The Iybyon were Korean guerillas that fought against Toyotomi Hideyoshi (who Tokugawa Ieyasu later betrayed to become Shogun of Japan) invasion of Korea.

Korea:

Infantry (Offensive)
Axeman -> Ko Choson Axeman -> Swordsman -> Iybyon* (Korean UU)

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Hwarang (Korean UU) -> Choson Arquebusier (Korean UU)

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Halberdier

Cavalry
Horseman -> Koryo Horse Archer (Korean UU) -> Heavy Cavalry

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Fanchuan

Navy (War)
War Junk -> Kobukson (Korean UU)

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Hwach'a (Korean UU)

Japan:
*"Samurai" is a very broad term, so I tried to be a bit more specific.

Infantry (Offensive)
Axeman -> Yayoi Axeman -> Bushi (Japanese UU) -> No-dachi Samurai* (Japanese UU)

Infantry (Ranged)
Archer -> Daikyu Archer (Japanese UU) -> Ashigaru Arquebusier (Japanese UU)

Infantry (Defensive)
Spearman -> Pikeman -> Sohei (Japanese UU)

Cavalry
Horseman -> Cavalry Archer -> Samurai Cavalry (Japanese UU)

Navy (Transport)
Sampan -> Fanchuan

Navy (War)
War Junk

Siege
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

 

[dugfromthearth]

One thing that I've wondered about with these sorts of mods. Since it is a "what if", why don't you make a couple of scenarios from the same mod?

Basically once you have all the units, improvements, etc, have one version that has no set map and you start with the basic civ start. Another with the map and the basic civ start (settler and worker), another with the map and you start with a city, and some stuff. Etc.

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

I'll probably make two versions of it - with the standard Asia map and another without the map (just the random usual Civ3 maps). Of course, it's a bit of a double-edged sword since certain civs depend highly on terrain. Tibetans have a huge advantage on mountains, but they won't have that advantage if they wind up on plains or desert.

Anyway, new city improvement list -

Population (growth)
Granary - standard Civ3 values
Harbor - standard Civ3 values
Aqueduct - standard Civ3 values
Hospital - standard Civ3 values
Magistrate - reduces corruption and war weariness
City Guard - reduces corruption
Execution Site - reduces corruption; -1 happiness
Peasant Taxation - twice as efficient as "Wealth" improvement, but casues -1 happiness (due to population resentment )
Wariyama - reduces population pollution (this was an innovative reforestation measure enacted by the Japanese of the Tokugawa Period; this is actually uniquely Japanese, but it is available to all civs in this mod for balance issues)

Population (happiness)
Ancestral Shrine - +1 happiness
Buddhist Monastery - +3 happiness
The "Licensed" District - +2 happiness
Theatre Pavillion - +3 happiness

Military/Defense
Barracks - standard Civ3 values
City Walls - standard Civ3 values
Turret Towers - replaces "Civil Defense" improvement

Commerce
Marketplace - standard Civ3 values
Trade Port - +1 trade in water tiles
Trade Guilds - +50% trade, +50% luxuries

Production
Labor Camp - +50% production, -2 happiness
Artisans' Shops - +50% production

Research
Library - +50% research
Academy - +50% research