"The Art of War" Mod Ideas Thread

maybe you should put in the Late Imperial Age period
from a techs like:
Industrialization
Samurai Infantry (Japanese UU) attk: 7 def: 8 move:1
East Asian Infantry attk: 6 def: 8 move:1
Qin-Shi Arquebusier [or however u spell it] (Chinese UU) attk:6 def:9 or 10 [whichever u like :)] move:1
Tibetan Gunman (Tibetan UU) attk:7 def:7 move:1

Refinery
Naval units
Cruiser attk:10 def:5 move:4 bombard:4
Takeda Cruiser (Japanese Flavor Unit) attk:10 def:5 move:4 bombard:4
Suiko Cruiser (Japanese UU) attk:12 def:6 move:4 bombard:5
Red Gunboat (Chinese UU) attk:11 def:5 move:6 bombard:6
Indian Cruiser (Tibetan UU) attk:10 def:8 move:5 bombard:5

Ground Units
Combat Engineer attk:9 def:7 move:1
Nipponese Infantry (Japanese UU) attk:10 def:7 move:2
Mongolian Flame (Mongolian UU) attk:10 def:8 move:1

Import: Rubber
G. I. attk:7 def:10 move:1
Chinese G. I. (Chinese UU) attk:8 def:11 move:1
Mongol Gunman (Mongol UU) attk:9 def:10 move:1
Korean Advance Guard (Korean UU) attk:7 def:13 move:1
 
oh again u can do the Militaristic age period

techs:

Flight:
Fighter attk:9 def:8 range:5 bombard:8
Zero (Japanese UU) attk:11 def:8 range:7 bombard:9
Airborne Transport attk:0 Def:0 transport:5 range:unltd.
Bomber attk:5 def:5 range:8 bombard:10

Amphibious warfare:
Transport attk:1 def:8 trans:8 move:6
Marine attk:11 def:6 move:2
SNL Marine (Chinese/Japanese UU) attk:13 def:6 move:2
Korean Aquatic Infantry (Korean UU) attk:15 def:5 move:2
Destroyer attk:15 def:10 move:6 bombard:5 trans:1
Indian Gunboat(Tibetan UU) attk:16 def:10 bombard:7 trans:1
AA Destroyer attk:9 def:13 AA:5 bombard:4 move:5
 
No modern or industrial units. This mod only stretches from the Post-Neolithic / Bronze Age to the early 18th century. I'm sure Sword_of_Geddon, who is doing a "Battlefield Asia" mod, would greatly appreciate this information, though. :)
 
Tech tree is now at about 60% completion. Working on the tech tree is proving to be insanely time consuming. :p I have the Post-Neolithic/Bronze Age and Iron Age techs completed. There are a whole lot of techs (about 3 times as much as what was in the Sengoku scenario).

Haven't finished working on the government types, but this is what I have so far:

Chiefdom - just "Despotism" renamed. Cultures generally start out as little chiefdoms before they start building cities, establishing more organized governments, and thus becoming what we call "civilizations." Of course, Chiefdoms faced little corruption (though corruption was virtually non-existent in smaller tribal groups) as chiefs were easily informally voted in or out whenever the situation arises and there was very little surplus to squabble over. Of course, once there was a surplus in goods and population, "chiefdoms" eventually expanded to become "state" societies (which essentially started developing monarchies as governments) and the need for more organization produced less equity between the leaders and the led. The high corruption is just there to get the player to get out of "Chiefdom". ;)

Monarchy - same as vanilla Civ3.

Bureaucratic Monarchy - This is basically the government that Qin Shi Huang Di created. The creation of this type of government was a pivotal development in Chinese civilization, as it was the establishment of an extremely sophisticated government with a well-organized bureaucracy that handled every sector of governmental affairs. Of course, that's not to say that this form of government was ideal in any sense of the word; the Qin Dynasty was extremely short-lived and later dynasties were plagued with corrupt bureaucrats, as the government simply was too large and petty offenses from government officials often went unnoticed. The corruption for Bureaucratic Monarchy is "communal" in the mod to simulate the fact that while corruption wasn't terribly catastrophic, there was still a quite a bit of corruption everywhere. Bureaucratic Monarchies can build "Legalist Academies". "Legalism" refers to the school of thought in China's Warring States Period that emphasized heavily on strict rule of law and favored a more totalitarian approach to maintaining societal order. Building these reduces corruption and increases productivity, but also reduces happiness.

Feudalism - same as vanilla Civ3. Though I had this as an Iron Age tech, feudalism existed at different periods of time in East Asian history. Though it existed to a certain extent in the Zhou Dynasty period, it was virtually obselete in China by the time the Warring States Period concluded. Feudalism was very prominent in Japan until the early modern period.

Confucianist Bureaucratic Monarchy - After the collapse of the Qin Dynasty, the school of Legalism was discredited by many scholars and thus Confucianism gained favor in the Han Dynasty. Of course, the Han Dynasty simply borrowed a lot of governmental organizational styles from the Qin. It was not until the Song Dynasty that a well-developed civil service examination based on the Confucian classics was introduced. Although there were more educated people in the government, the system was by no means a meritocracy (although there was the odd chance that a person of low status passed the exam and entered government service), as aristocrats generally had the upper hand as they could easily hire tutors in preparation for the exam. Though Confucius himself believed in a meritocracy and responsible government, the system maintained the status quo as much as the Qin Dynasty's Legalist system did. Post-Warring States Period interpretations of Confucianism greatly influenced politics in Korea and Japan as well, particularly the "Neo Confucianist" movement. " Confucianist Monarchies can enact the "Civil Service Examination" which increases research and reduces corruption, though at a high cost per turn.
 
City Improvements:
*You might notice that some of these are purely conceptual and some are actually unique to only certain civilizations. The Chinese didn't have a "Wariyama" program and the Mongols didn't adopt Confucianism. But of course, this is a "what-if" scenario. :) The cheapest corruption reducing improvements and the improvements that enhance production the most also happen to be the ones that cause the most unhappiness. ;)

Religion
Ancestral Temple - +1 Happiness, +2 Culture
Daoist Temple - +1 Happiness, +2 Culture; requires Timber
Buddhist Monastery - +1 Happiness, +3 Culture, +50% research; requires Timber and Copper (for the statues ;) )

Education
Publishing House - +1 Happiness, +50% research
Library - +50% research
Academy - +50% research; requires Timber

Entertainment / Luxuries (and Debauchery ;) )
Tea House - +1 Happiness, +1 Culture; cheapest entertainment improvement to build
Theatre Pavillion - +2 Happiness, +2 Culture; requires Silk and Timber
The Pleasure Quarters - +1 Happiness, +50% luxuries, +3 Culture; requires Silk and Incense (for you-know-what :p ); most expensive to build and maintain
Annual Festivals - Edict improvement; +1 Happiness

Trade/Production
Marketplace - +50% taxes
Peasant Taxation - -1 Happiness, acts as "Wealth" improvement
Trade Port - +1 trade in water tiles
Artisan's Guilds - +1 culture, increases production
Merchant's Guilds - +50% taxes, +50% luxuries

Administration/Growth
Granary - Increases growth
Aqueduct - Allows city size 2
Apothecary - Allows city size 3
Harbor - Increases food production in water tiles
Local Magistrate - reduces corruption
Legalist Academy - +1 Culture, -1 Happiness, increases production, reduces corruption; requires Timber; Bureaucratic Monarchy only

Tyrannical Measures :D
Execution Site - -1 Happiness, -1 Culture, reduces corruption; cheapest to build and maintain
Forced Labor Camp - -2 Happiness, -2 Culture, increases production
Torture Chamber - -2 Happiness, -3 Culture, increases production (work harder, peon! :lol: ), reduces corruption
 
Adding Others to the Mix:

Since it wouldn't make sense to have only five civilizations in such an extremely diverse region, I thought it would be more interesting to have "minor civs" added into the mix. Similar to the way the "Mesoamerica" Conquest scenario was handled, there will be several non-playable civilizations that the playable civilizations will clash with. Though these civilizations were by no means "minor" historically, they were ones that were ultimately engulfed by the major powers of the region. They will have no UUs, but they will be able to establish cities, conduct trade, and make diplomatic proposals.

The "minor civs" will be:
1. The Kingdom of Yue - Lead by Gou Jian with the capital at Guiji. "Yue" is a broad term to refer to the peoples living in Southeastern China, particularly the regions now known as the provinces of Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Fujian, and Guangdong. Though they were engulfed by the powerful Han Empire, the kingdom of Yue (as well as its rival state of Wu) started out being referred to as "uncivilized" and eventually became strong enough to challenge the "hegemons" of the Zhanguo ("Warring States") Period.

2. The Ainu - I don't know much about the Ainu, so I don't have a city list or leader list yet. The Ainu are the indigenous people of Japan (and, according to some theories, are the ancestors of the Native Americans of North America), though ages of conflict with the Yamato Japanese forced them northward. Their culture is very distinct from Japanese culture, and interestingly enough, their language is extremely differnt from any of the major linguistic groups of Eastern Asia.

3. The Xiong-Nu - I don't know much about the Xiong-Nu either, except that they were later known as the "Huns". Nomads of the steppes, they were a major threat to the Chinese Empire.

These are the three minor civs I have right now. It's possible that I might expand the list of both minor civs and major civs since the Asia map I have is so huge that including Siam, Bhutan, Nepal, and Vietnam is possible as well. Of course, I am aiming for a focused scenario, so that may or may not be done.
 
Tech Tree for Post-Neolithic/Bronze Age completed. Haven't worked on the pics and the civlopedia text yet, though.

Here's what I have planned out:
 
East Asians, especially the Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans (to some extent) in the 1st up to 17th century AD, sometimes even the 18th century (Qing Dynasty Banners) have this concept of Battlefield Honour, a Leader/Field Marshall (Yuen Shuai)/General (Jiang Juen) personal Chilvary, and battles that are general weighted upon how brilliant the general is on the battlefield (since sedentary East Asian armies are usually based on numbers to overwhelm enemies rather than too much focus on discipline (like the Roman Legionaires or even the Steppe Golden Horde Mongols).

The point is, if you are an avid fan of the novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, which also reflects the 3 kingdoms period, AND also the Chronicles of Yue Fei (South Sung Dynasty), and the Warring States Period (Qin, Chu, Qi, Yan, etc. ); it isn't hard to notice that a general will challenge an opposing general in personal combat (act of chivalry) and once a general concedes defeat or dies at the hands of his opponent, his troops usually redraws without much of a fight or routs (A simililar experience could be found playing the TOTAL WAR series of games).

What I am suggesting is that we create general characters (like Guan Yu), bestow them the natural Attack/Defence/Movement and Abilities; yet also allow them to act like the original Military Leaders of Civilization.

IN such a way Different Generals/ Leaders will have different abilities and stats.

For Example (Xu Zhu- a Famous Wei General, superb warrior, well-versed in land battles) versus (Guan Yu- Famous Shu General, equally superb warrior, well versed in both naval and land battles)

Both will have almost equal Attack/Defence stats; but Guan Yu will have an extra amphibious attack function; and probably higher movement points since the is def more brilliant than Xu Zhu on the field.

What I actually did was make Guan Yu a transport unit (so that he could carry troops-which benefits from his movement points)(very much like a brilliant general out manevouring the enemy), his attack bonus (equavalent to his chilvary), and if he gets ambushed and dies (the troops he is transporting flaters with him).

The idea goes on and on like the brilliant strategist/field marshall ZhuGeLiang, would have almost all the abilities available i.e. treat all terrain as roads, even a bombard function (since he is famous for inventing siegemachines and the continous crossbow) on top of his weak attack stats/strong defence stats (since he is good in the art of war - he is famous for his orderly retreats under forced unfavorable hasty conditions and a pursuing army but still not lose a man to the enemy in his general retreat, and at times even managing to inflict a terrible blow to the pursuing enemy - a feat no one else in history seems able to emulate). You may even give ZhuGeLiang build fortification/outpost functions..........the list go on

While more beauracratic civil officers have irrigate/build road functions with more efficiency than common workers.............................

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE IDEA???? :confused:

I have tried apply this in my mods (I am currently working on my What-If mod Ming Expedition to the Americas), and tried to do the RTKingdoms BUT failed miserably since I am no artist, there is no such units available and my PhD is starting soon, so I will have to abandon all the work altogether. :sad:

SO I hope someone will integrate this idea into their GREAT IDEAS. :goodjob:

There are plenty of references to start with (esp if someone is interested in creating a RTKingdoms mod) since there is so many games out there detailing the stats of the many Characters; Plenty of comics and serious art works on the RTK Novels with details on the ornate armour/weapons/features ;)

And then there are also exotic units like the Elephant Warriors of Annam in the South, Xiong Nu horse archers and heavy catarphacts in the North, Yue swordmen and pirates in Southeastern China, Jiang barbarian Chariotmen and horsemen in Northwest China, and Qiang mountainmen in the modern day Tibet area. Not to mention the unique units for Wei, Shu, Wu; Wei heavy riders, Shu Mountain troops and crossbowmen, Wu seamen and naval units......the list goes on and on :crazyeye:

THINK ABOUT IT PLEASE......... :sad:
 
You may even integrate this into the technology/civilization advances; since for example Guan Yu has offsprings who are great generals in thier own right, so maybe you can upgrade Guan Yu into Guan Xing etc.

Or you may allocate a technology slot like "Guan Family Banner" "Guan Household" to make Guan Xing available. However, I have yet to figure out how to control people building more than one Guan Xing; I have tried to make Guan Xing very very expensive, and allow a "Guan Household" wonder to give Guan Xing as a free unit every many turns, but does not solve the problem.

:confused: Any solutions anyone???????

Or you could allocate specific strategic resources like a ChuCeMa (Red Hare- a famous horse) in order to upgrade to a more powerful Guan Yu 2

other resources like the imperial seal; the great beauties; etc.

Or to make it less complex; just add the characters all at once in the start game (so that there will be no 2 Guan Yu at one time); do not allow build guanyu but only ungrades (like the Senjoku scenario King unit in Conquest)....
====

Terrain wise, I am monitoring the brilliant idea of canals in the forums, if it works out, we amy be even able to use it as the Chang Jiang (River) which historically provides the natural defence and border for the Wu against the expantionist Wei, so as we could use Wu naval units in Naval battles and yet allow bridges whereby Wei Land troops could cross and Wu/Shu soldiers to defend these "strongpoints". :confused:
 
I do not intend to make this an RtK-oriented mod. There was one in the works, although I haven't heard about any new addditions or any progress in a while. The "Art of War" mod will cover the Shang Dynasty to the early part of the Qing Dynasty. That is already a lot to cover. This is not a China-oriented mod either; Korea, Japan, Mongolia, and Tibet are in the equation as well. It is already complicated enough as it is.

Nonetheless, I am sure that there are some modders here that might be interested in your ideas. Why not making a seperate thread for this?
 
Haven't been working on the mod in a while. Kind of got out of it, but I'm coming back to it now. :)

Civ4 has given me a bit of an idea. Why not two versions of the mod with the two versions having different leaders? The civs under the different leaders have different civ traits.

For example:
China
Qin Shi Huang Di Ying Zheng (Qin Shi Huang Di) - Militaristic, Industrious
Huang Hou Wu Zhao - Religious, Industrious

Tibet
Dharmaraja Songsten Gampo - Expansionist, Religious
Dalai Lama Ngawang Gyatso - Scientific, Religious

Mongols
Genghis Khan Temujin - Militaristic, Expansionist
Setsen Khan Kublai - Militaristic, Scientific

Korea
Taejo Wang Kon - Militaristic, Commercial
Taewang Sejong - Scientific, Commercial

Japan
Tennou Suiko - Religious, Scientific
Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu - Militaristic, Religious
 
That is a good idea. I like the new leader choices.
I'm glad to see you are still working on this mod.
 
I've been revising the unit lines. Still figuring out the Mongol and Tibetan unit lines. The attack and defense powers are not yet set in stone. This is just a blueprint. :)

Units
Attack/Defense/Movement
*Unique Units – Each civilization has 4 UUs.

Chinese
(Infantry)
Stone Axeman (1/1/1) -> Shang Axeman (3/2/1) -> Buzi (5/3/1) -> Zhanmadao Swordsman (7/5/1)

(Cavalry)
War Chariot (2/1/2; wheeled; zone of control)* -> Light Cavalry (3/1/2; zone of control) -> Tang Cavalry (5/2/2; zone of control) -> Heavy Cavalry (7/4/2; zone of control)

(Ranged)
Archer (2/1/1; bombard) -> Stone Crossbowman (4/1/1; bombard) -> Zhuge-Nu (6/3/1; bombard)* -> Fire Lancer (9/3/1; bombard)

(Defense)
Spearman (1/2/1) -> Pikeman (2/4/1) -> Halberdier (4/7/1)

(Naval Transports)
Sampan (1/1/3) -> Junk (2/3/4) -> Freighter Junk (3/5/5)

(Naval Warships)
Castle Ship (4/4/2)* -> War Tiger Paddleship (6/4/4; bombard)* -> Fuchuan (9/6/5; bombard; zone of control)

(Privateer Ships)
Pirate Junk (3/1/4; hidden nationality) -> Kuai Chuan (5/2/6; hidden nationality)

(Siege)
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Cannon

Japanese
(Infantry)
Jomon Warrior (1/1/1) -> Yayoi Axeman (3/2/1) -> Bushi (5/3/1) -> Samurai (7/5/1)

(Cavalry)
Horseman (1/1/2; zone of control) -> Heian Horse Archer (3/2/2; zone of control; ranged)*; Minamoto Samurai (5/2/2; zone of control) -> Samurai Heavy Cavalry (7/4/2; zone of control)

(Ranged)
Archer (2/1/1; bombard) -> Stone Crossbowman (4/1/1; bombard) -> Daikyuu Archer (6/2/1; bombard) -> Ashigaru Harquebusier (10/3/1; bombard)*

(Defense)
Spearman (1/2/1) -> Yari Samurai (2/4/1) -> Sohei (5/7/1)*

(Naval Transports)
Sampan (1/1/3) -> Junk (2/3/4) -> Freighter Junk (3/5/5)

(Naval Warships)
Kobaya (3/3/2) -> Ataka Bune (6/3/3) -> Tessen (9/6/5; bombard; zone of control)

(Privateer Ships)
Wa-ko Kobaya (3/1/4; hidden nationality) -> Wa-ko Junk (6/1/6; hidden nationality)*

(Siege)
Catapult -> Siege Crossbow -> Cannon

Korean
(Infantry)
Stone Axeman (1/1/1) -> Ko-Choson Axeman (3/2/1) -> Swordsman (5/3/1) -> Choson Infantry (7/5/1)

(Cavalry)
Horseman (1/1/2; zone of control) -> Light Cavalry (3/1/2; zone of control) -> Koryo Horse Archer (5/3/2; zone of control)* -> Choson Heavy Cavalry (7/4/2; zone of control)

(Ranged)
Archer (2/1/1; bombard) -> Hwarang (4/3/1; bombard)* -> Choson Archer (6/3/1; bombard) -> Choson Harquebusier (9/3/1; bombard)

(Defense)
Spearman (1/2/1) -> Pikeman (2/4/1) -> Iybyon (5/7/1; all terrain as roads)*

(Naval Transports)
Sampan (1/1/2) -> Koryo Junk (2/3/4) -> Freighter Junk (3/5/5)

(Naval Warships)
Korean Galley (3/3/2) -> P’anokson (6/3/3) -> Kobukson (9/8/5; bombard; zone of control)*

(Privateer Ships)
Pirate Junk (3/1/4; hidden nationality) -> Fast Ship (5/2/6; hidden nationality)

(Siege)
Catapult -> Traction Trebuchet -> Hwach’a
 
Finished mapping out the techs for the 3rd era. Is this accurate historically? Yes and no. For two reasons: 1) The problem is though I based the tech tree largely on China's development, I still have to take all civs in account and each civ developed in a very unique way; and 2) I'm largely using Goldflash's expanded tech tree as a base and re-naming the techs and altering the tech progressions. There's also a factor of uncertainty - certain techs may have been developed earlier, but the evidence on when exactly they were developed is not entirely conclusive. :crazyeye:

The "Early Gunpowder Weapons" have been pushed to the third age (the one in the second age has simply become "Fireworks," which allows the "Fireworks Display" improvement) and enables Cannons. The Chinese Firelancer UU has been pushed to the fourth age since having a gunpowder unit for China so early on makes it way overpowered.

"Pottery" and "Agriculture" in the first era have been switched so "Pottery" comes before "Agriculture" and "Agriculture" also requires "Animal Domestication" and is one of the pre-reqs for "Jurisprudence."

Note that like the previous tech trees, there are two "tracks": One geared towards a "builder" player aiming for cultural victory or territorial expansion by means of construction and the other geared towards a "military" player aiming for a conquest victory.

I haven't tested this out in the game since I am still in the process of mapping tech trees so none of the tech trees are set in stone and are prone to be modified. It is also possible that I might add Dai Viet (now "Vietnam") as one of the playable civs. :)
 
Can I do anything for you? Need a unit or two?
Click to expand...

A Ming dynasty Zhanmadao swordsman or a Korean halberdier (armed with a naginata-like polearm) would be nice. :) Don't know if you can find the props for that (but the Zhanmadao sword appears a lot like a Japanese no-dachi). There's also an apalling lack of Korean props for Poser as well... It'd be nice if we had more Chinese or Korean ground units. :)
 
I couldn't find any good pics of soldiers from the Koryo era, but two from the Choson era.

These first is a pic of a Choson noble armed with a bow and and the next one is a pic of what appears to be a mounted guard regiment.

kr05_01a.jpg


image_korea2.jpg


Armor for Korean soldiers are similar Chinese armor so they should bear some similarities to the armor on this guy:
ArmorSamurai736_hi.jpg
 
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