The Atomic Question?

If You Were President Truman Would You Have Dropped The Atomic Bomb On Japan?

  • Yes

    Votes: 53 60.2%
  • No

    Votes: 28 31.8%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 6 6.8%
  • Don't care, don't understand or other

    Votes: 1 1.1%

  • Total voters
    88
Ok, I think I would not use the A-bomb, but I can understand why the Americans used it.

1. They had a brand new weapon that they wanted to try. The best time for this is a war, which is almost won, (so don't have to think about payback) and the home front is very supportive, wanting revenge after Pearl Harbor.

2. They clearly wanted to show the Soviets that they can destroy a city with one bomb. The cold war was inevitable, indeed both side was pretty sure about a WWIII in the next few years.

3. They used the argument about invading Japan. I think this is false, Japan would have collapesed after some other "conventional" bombing like the one of Tokyo.
It is true that Japanese leaders prepared civilians to fight but that was the same story in England in 1940 (Churchill had a slogan something like this: "you can always take one with you"). In the Japanese culture there is a larger emphasis on self-sacrifice so it probably would have been more efficient than in England, though. But looking from a pure military standpoint I think invasion of Japan was not neccessary.

4. Nuking Nagasaki was pure revenge whatever scientist said about the unclear evidence of Hiroshima. A couple of days after the first bomb I don't think that the aftermath could be clearly seen on either side. They just wanted to use their other nuke, so I think they were rather satisfied when Japan not surrendered in the next day of Hiroshima.

Does anybody know why did they choose Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If I remember correctly some idiot wanted to nuke Kyoto just because that is one of the most significant city in representing the Japanese culture (so far for military considerations) but someone from the administration said veto because he was (or studied) there. Tokyo obviously could not be the target since there was only a few thing to destroy after the fire-bombing and they wanted to try the bomb in a relatively unharmed city.

So the bottom line is that the circumstances of nuking were special because a lot of factors worked towards it. These factors were both military (new weapon) and political (cold war demonstration, revenge). I don't think that in that particular case and with that information they have about the war more than a tiny proportion of Americans would have chosen the other way.

As for the history education I think propaganda is propaganda everywhere. Since there is no ultimate truth so every government tries to describe the country's positive sides especially during the wars (and even more especially during lost wars). Not a single country is an exception. I can find a lot of problems in Hungarian education about some periods of the Hungarian history and I guess it should be the same in other countries.
 
The post directly following this one is one I made in a different forum around last november when we were discussing this very issue. I hope you all don't mind me recycling a post I previously used elsewhere. Apologies to the moderater if it is too long.
 
First let me say any sentiments revealed here apply to the past actions of Japan, not now. For over 50 years Japan and the USA have had cordial and friendly relations and I have no beef with them whatsoever. They've been good friends to our nation and I see no reason that shouldn't continue. This post applies only to our relationship, or lack thereof, while we were at war.

Those that think the United States committed war crimes by dropping atomic bombs in WWII, go stick your head in a blender and hit "liquify", the human gene pool will improve sharply.

I'll just go down a few points here:

1) We were fighting a declared war against the Empire of Japan which they started by violating International Law with a surprise attack. Not our fault their communications were slow and they couldn't translate the code in time.

2) We HAD demanded Japan surrender unconditionally before we dropping the bomb, several times. That they refused, and the reasons for such refusal were not then nor will they be our problem. It is irrelevent and totally without concern to me that they were concerned about saving honor or the fate of their Emperor. American lives were taken by them at the onset of this war and their defeat and surrender was the only acceptable outcome.

3) Hiroshima: 2nd Army Headquarters, commanded defense of all southern Japan, communications center, storage area, point of troop assembly and embarkation throughout the war.

4) Nagasaki: Shipyard, Ordnance, other military materials all produced there. All critical to a nation in time of war.

NOTE: Points 3 and 4 are taken from the following website at YALE university, hardly a dubious and questionable source: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/abomb/mp06.htm

5) Even after Hiroshima was utterly destroyed, Japan STILL refused to surrender, so under ANY logic Japan is wholly responsible for the continuation of the war and any deaths after that. Of course, they started the war so were responsible for all deaths up TO that point as well.

6) Whether you agree with me on this point, I really don't care. If the bombings saved even ONE American life they were worth it in my opinion, and actually, estimates range as high as a quarter of a million American lives saved by not having to invade Japan. Not to mention Japanese lives saved, yes SAVED. It was thought up to 1 million Japanese might die in a mainland invasion because of the fanaticism shown in other battles and the huge losses they sustained without surrendering. Since history took a different course, we will never know of course the validity of these estimates, but I have no reason to doubt them.
 
Originally posted by dannyevilcat
It seems a terrible thing to say, but the world should be glad that it was dropped.
It ended the most devastating war we've ever known, but even more important is this:
We are reminding of the enormous danger of these weapons everytime we see those bombs dropped in documentary footage, images which have affected us all, showed us a glimpse of nuclear holocaust.
The footage of testing doesn't have near the same impact on our psyche.

Better to have dropped it before other countries got their hands on them too, and before we developed these weapons with even bigger payloads.

This is not to justify the deaths of so many Japanese, but I feel that perhaps Hiroshima and Nagasaki may have saved us all from the same fate later on.

Very well said. I was about to write something like that, but you beat me to it.
 
Originally posted by klazlo
But looking from a pure military standpoint I think invasion of Japan was not neccessary.

True, a complete blockade would have worked too. It's not like they produce enough food on those islands for all their people. (Intentionally cruel to make a point)

4. Nuking Nagasaki was pure revenge whatever scientist said about the unclear evidence of Hiroshima. A couple of days after the first bomb I don't think that the aftermath could be clearly seen on either side. They just wanted to use their other nuke, so I think they were rather satisfied when Japan not surrendered in the next day of Hiroshima.

I disagree. The Japanese had only to drive in or fly over. They knew what the bomb had done and many of the generals wanted to keep fighting after the second bomb too.

Does anybody know why did they choose Hiroshima and Nagasaki? If I remember correctly some idiot wanted to nuke Kyoto just because that is one of the most significant city in representing the Japanese culture (so far for military considerations) but someone from the administration said veto because he was (or studied) there. Tokyo obviously could not be the target since there was only a few thing to destroy after the fire-bombing and they wanted to try the bomb in a relatively unharmed city.

IIRC both wers smaller cities that were on a short list of cities left largely untouched by the bombers in anticipation of the a-bombs. As a result, they were some of the only targets left in Japan not almost completely wrecked.
 
Originally posted by knowltok2

Nuking Nagasaki was pure revenge whatever scientist said about the unclear evidence of Hiroshima. A couple of days after the first bomb I don't think that the aftermath could be clearly seen on either side. They just wanted to use their other nuke, so I think they were rather satisfied when Japan not surrendered in the next day of Hiroshima.

I disagree. The Japanese had only to drive in or fly over. They knew what the bomb had done and many of the generals wanted to keep fighting after the second bomb too.

I guess some generals would have been fought to the end (If I remember correctly a couple of low-rank officers committed a group harakiri after the surrender near the emperor's palace), what I wanted to say is that although they could see the actual destruction they probably could not get the new features (totality) of this new weapon.
So if I really want the enemy to surrender after nuking (the first time in history) I would wait a bit more than three days, giving enough time for the pro-surrender argument among the Japanese leadership. The second nuke of course was a very "successful" emphasis on this argument but maybe it was not that neccessary.
 
Considering that there was still a LOT of sentiment in the Japanese military hierarchy against surrendering after Hiroshima, I doubt that they would have given in if we had given them more time. More likely, they would have taken it as a sign of "weakness" and thought that we had no more atomic weapons. Either way, I don't think that either side will ever completely win this debate. Thanks to revisionist historians and the blatant lies made by the post-war Japanese government, there will always be those who will not concede that Japan was NOT going to surrendur and that casualties WOULD have been higher if the bombs had not been dropped, both among American soldiers (although I get the impression that many critics of the bombing wouldn't care over much about these) and Japanese soldiers and civilians.
 
The Atomic Question:


I used to firmly believe in the US use of nukes against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I have spent lots of time in Japan in the 1990's. But after reading the actual records (copies of them), I was shocked to learn the full nature of Truman's deceptions and coverups. It was Truman himself that "invented" the commonly cited "1,000,000" casualty for Operation Olympic.... after the war... in an attempt to justify his actions which he began to realize were indefensible in terms of the Soviets, Japanese, and in particular, the use of Atomic weapons.

Most sources put the estimate of US casualties in the invasion of the japenese homeland at around 78,000. One source went as high as 250,000. Marshall believed around 100,000. After the nuking, Truman began to realize that others would judge him harshly, and began to systematicall alter the records, and hide key documents. Most of these documents have now been recovered. They reveal many things, including the fact the Air Force did not want to nuke H & N... they were civilian targets of no direct military consequence.

Despite decades of misinformation in the wake of the altered and hidden records recording Truman's decision making in regard to teh Atomic Bomb deployment, the facts are that Truman unnecessarily nuked the Japs.... In fact, the only roadblock to a Japanese surrender was Truman himself. And the surrender he finally accepted was the same surrender he had dissed in April of 1945. So other than killing lots more Americans (not to mention allies and Japanese), and double-nuking a defeated country, not much was accomplished by the 5 month delay in accepting the Japanese conditional surrender.

That Truman willfully and methodically covered up and distorted (thru press leaks) his own culpability only makes things worse. As we now know from the original records that Truman misfiled, altered, and hid (particlularly the most damning records with hidden via his secretary), it played a direct role in how he handled the Korean War.

People should research the decisions leading to the use of the Bomb... the reality of recorded and written history is very different than what many latter-day Truman apologists would have the public believe. And Truman's decisions and actions are a shamful, but relatively unknown, part of American history.

While we're on the subject, of course, the rest of Truman's record is not much better... a Divided and occupied Europe... millions killed and executed after the war (mostly by Truman's ally, the evil USSR), a world split, A war fought with no intention of victory, cowardice in the face of a wartime enemy.... rarely has such a despicable Commander in Chief ever occupied the Presidency.... until Bill Clinton, who must still take 2nd place to Truman for sheer numbers of US servicemen needlessly killed.


People often fixate on the nuclear question and hypotheticals, and some Truman "supporters" can get hysterical when discussing the issues... but the historical and unbiased documented record of memos, telexes, cables, meeting minutes... and Truman's subsequent cover up of embarrassing documentation (e.g., removal of information concerning his nuclear decisions and placement of key information in small locked boxes given to other people, like his female secretary, who had them for decades until discovered)... it is worth reading, but quite boring to do so.

It might suprise some people to know that Truman pretty much stood alone in wanting to use the Atom bomb against the Japanese.... Mac Arthur was specifically apalled that it was used against civilian-only targets, and did not approve of such employment.... further, there was absolutely no military necessity for it. The japanese, as we now know, had been planning to surrender since the Fall of 1944. In the April of 1945, the new American President Truman secretly turned down Japanese offer of surrender (thru diplomatic back channels) becuase the Japanese had one condition... that the Emperor survive. Truman restated publically "un -conditional surrender", and tens of thousands of American soldiers continued to die unnecessarily from late April of 1945 to August of 1945. That blood is on Truman's hands, alone. Only he wanted war, and his personal "pride" and stupid public dogma prevented peace. Make no mistake.... Truman's was the most monsterous treachery an American President can commit.

The ultimate betrayal was sealed when Truman finally accepted teh Japanese Surrender..... do you recall the terms? Unconditional... EXCEPT that the Emperor survive. All the dead, and unimaginable suffering by MILLIONS from April of 1945 to late August of 1945, plus millions killed in firebombings and hundreds of thousands incinerated in nuclear fireballs... for what? No net change in the victory and surrender conditions. Appalling.

If a person were to read the actual records of the decision to use nukes on Japan, almost every military advisor was opposed.... almost every cabinet official was opposed. Japan was in no position to continue the was, but Truman was obsessed with getting Stalin into the war by July 1945.

This leads to the Chinese nuclear question. Mac Aurthur certainly wanted, and naturally expected, the full support of his Commander In Chief for American Soldiers engaged in a difficult war. Truman was obscessed with the possibility of Chinese intervention.... heck, with a coward like Truman in command, America should have just backed up and gone home from Europe and Asia, and burrowed into a cave, quaking with fear.

The choice of war was made by the Chinese. They should have paid the price with unrestricted conventional attacks by the US. But Truman would not support those underhis command... the average American soldier. He refused time and again to allow the military to do its job... bear in mind, up to 1951, no American President had refused a Supreme Commander the ability to fight, attack, and defend itself. This was a first in history (and set the stage for similar incompetant Presidential meddling a decade later).

Everyone, but everyone, knew the Chinese could, by force of sheer number, overwhelm the Korean penninsula if they so chose. When the Chinese saw that Truman was a coward, quaking in his indecisive boots, they took the opportunity and attacked. They knew Truman better than Mac Arthur in the nuclear question... with no permission to counterattack the source of the evil Red Chinese army, and no permission for even tactical use of nukes on military units, Mac Arthur was pretty darned pissed that HIS men were being slaughtered by the evil Red Chinese.

Did Mac Arthur want to kill civilians? No. Would civilians get killed? Most definately. Whose fault would that be? Directly: the evil Red Chinese for attacking -- sneak attacking -- America. Indirectly, Truman's... for sending the signal to the evil Red Chinese to attack and begin slaughtering American and South Korean people.

Conventional bombing was what Mac Arthur wanted... he wanted to lay waste to all the sources of resupply, communication, troops, etc. In short, he was fighting a war, and Truman was playing a sick and disgusting game. Mac Arthur was trying to end a war and save lives (yes, human life on both sides), and Truman was (as usual) betraying America and it's fighting men in the field.

It is absurd to think that a President would allow tens of thousands of Americans to get killed, and not even unleash the US Military on the source of the killers... yet Truman did just that. Even if the Atomic Bomb decision rested with the President (it did), Truman had no business meddling in the actual conduct of the war... keep in mind that even Lincoln was not telling his generals what hills to attack, what bridges to take, etc. In all of American history to that point, no American general had been denied the use of it's military in the field to win a war.

For students of military history, Truman's actions were and are shocking and unprecedented, and the Nation was almost univerally apalled. I'm sure Mac Arthur was quite incensed... and he had a right to be. As an American, I'm still apalled that our President comitted nothing less treason and cowardice in the face of the enemy -- in wartime. Tens of thousands died. And the war was never won...

In the final analysis, the fact remains that if a nation attacks and kills Americans, esp. in an undeclared sneak attack like the Evil Red Chinese did, the C-in-C should pull all the stops and unleash the full and entire weight of the US Military upon such evil aggression and murder. Had Chairman Mao been Commander-in-Chief, most of his actions would scarcely have been distinguishable from those of Truman's.

Lest we forget, it was the Chinese, not the US, that decided to pick a war. The US had no intention of fighting in the Far East, and indeed did not even have the proper forces in place for a defense. A "defense" based almost exclusively on airpower and the Bomb does no good if you will not use the Bomb to defend the lives of America's (and her Allies') soldiers and defend humanity and freedom in general...
A note for proponents of "containment" that Truman began in post-WWII Europe.... you don't "contain" evil. You stomp it out. Hunt it down and kill it. What a stupid idea to allow evil to survive, when the world fought a war to rid itself of dictatorships, murderers, and evil empires. A coward like Truman comes along and ensures the survival, nay the flourishing, of empires even more monsterous than that of the defeated 3rd Reich and Rising Sun.

So the ultimate conclusion, any way you slice it (history, opinion of advisors of the time, military necessity, saving of life, Truman's own records that have come to light since the late 1960's)... the Bomb should have not been used against the defeated Japanese, and should have been used against the evil Red Chinese in the Korean War of the early 1950s.

Some people will not fight even to save their family and countrymen. Fine. But get out of the way, and don't betray the nation, and don't stay in office as President. Others will eventually pay the price, one way or the other.


PS, I am aware that in this hyper-sensitive age of extreme political correctness some people might interpret my absolute abhorrance of the evil Red Chinese and the Red Menace (including the defunct USSR) as somehow being applied to the individual people of these dead and dying nations. That is not true. For example, you will note that long phrase, "evil Red Chinese" is used when referring to the monsters that enslave and kill the Chinese people. In fact, I have much respect for the Chinese civilization and Chinese people... it the the evil Red Chinese that should be rooted out and exterminated. The Evil Red Chinese even kill and oppress their own people, the Chinese people. The evil Red Chinese are even now developing nuclear platforms that can deliver thermonuclear devices to the United States mainland. A few years ago, they obtained the capability to strike Hawaii and parts of Alaska, when President Clinton and VP Gore broke US law and betrayed the nation by giving the evil Red Chinese the guidance technology and certain other technology to improve the delivery paltrofms for weapons of mass destruction. Judas' price for betrayal was 30 pieces of silver. Clinton and Gore's price was a few bucks and evil Red Chinese support for their '96 re-election campaign.

:cool:

BTW, This post is 11,726 characters long because I have lots of stuff to do (apologies).

america1s.jpg
 
Originally posted by roadwarrior
Considering that there was still a LOT of sentiment in the Japanese military hierarchy against surrendering after Hiroshima, I doubt that they would have given in if we had given them more time. More likely, they would have taken it as a sign of "weakness" and thought that we had no more atomic weapons. Either way, I don't think that either side will ever completely win this debate. Thanks to revisionist historians and the blatant lies made by the post-war Japanese government, there will always be those who will not concede that Japan was NOT going to surrendur and that casualties WOULD have been higher if the bombs had not been dropped, both among American soldiers (although I get the impression that many critics of the bombing wouldn't care over much about these) and Japanese soldiers and civilians.

I don't want to repeat myself but I really don't think that there were any consideration about NOT dropping both bombs. Again, I don't think that the invasion was inevitable (I agree that it would cost a lot of lives, but it had nothing to do with the bombs, I think this explanation was made for the home public).
The two bombs were different types, Little Boy was uranium and Fat Man was plutonium. It's quite clear: if the US had two types of bombs then they drop two. They just wanted to try both that's all.
If the Japanese didn't want to surrender after Hiroshima there were other ways of persuing them. I didn't read anything from the post-war Japan and I'm not a revisionist historian (in fact not a historian at all). But I do think that for the US this historical moment was very good to try their new weapon for several reasons. But among these reasons the death of American soldiers in the invasion was not the most important. Only the most emphasised.
 
I don't want to repeat myself but I really don't think that there were any consideration about NOT dropping both bombs. Again, I don't think that the invasion was inevitable (I agree that it would cost a lot of lives, but it had nothing to do with the bombs, I think this explanation was made for the home public).
The two bombs were different types, Little Boy was uranium and Fat Man was plutonium. It's quite clear: if the US had two types of bombs then they drop two. They just wanted to try both that's all.

As I explained, most of the original memos and documents that Truman hid and covered up before he left office have now been found in recent years. It clearly shows that he went against the advice of almost every single military advisor, and generals. His considerations had nothing to do with military... the classic explanation of "1,000,000" casualties in Operation Olympic are clearly shown in meeting minutes from a discussion with Chief of Staff Gen. George Marshall, when Truman directed that the actual estimates be changed to blunt the postwar questions that he (rightly) feared would eventually arise.

The same Japanese could have been firebombed with greater casualties, BTW.
Truman had 7 years to be a revisionist in office after the war, and he made the most of it :(.
 
Originally posted by starlifter


As I explained, most of the original memos and documents that Truman hid and covered up before he left office have now been found in recent years. It clearly shows that he went against the advice of almost every single military advisor, and generals. His considerations had nothing to do with military... the classic explanation of "1,000,000" casualties in Operation Olympic are clearly shown in meeting minutes from a discussion with Chief of Staff Gen. George Marshall, when Truman directed that the actual estimates be changed to blunt the postwar questions that he (rightly) feared would eventually arise.

The same Japanese could have been firebombed with greater casualties, BTW.
Truman had 7 years to be a revisionist in office after the war, and he made the most of it :(.

Yep, your answer showed up when I was writing mine and just saw it after I posted, but it's a very interesting and important point in this story.
 
Dear Starlifter,

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both quite legitimate targets (read my previous long post). As far as the number of deaths counts and such, who cares if it was 100,000 or 1 million. It saved US and Allied lives, that is all that matters, period. The lives of any enemy are a very distant consideration in my view, especially when THEY start the war.

Btw, the only surrender the US should ever accept from its enemies is unconditional....screw the Emperor (he was a war criminal and should have been hanged). And please post some proof about your accusations regarding Truman. Thank you.
 
Oh, btw, I actually think the 1 million lives number is common sense anyway. The Japanese lost 150,000 in Okinawa alone. Do you honestly think they would fight with LESS dedication for their homeland?
 
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both quite legitimate targets (read my previous long post). As far as the number of deaths counts and such, who cares if it was 100,000 or 1 million. It saved US and Allied lives, that is all that matters, period.

I have not asserted that H & N were not legitimate targets, per se. The US Army Air Corps did question the use of those targets.

As a member of the US military, and an officer charged with lives in peace and war, I understand the duty to minimize loss of live while accomplishing the mission. Because your knowledge of the subject is incomplete, your earnest errors in assertions such as that are not detectable to you.

One of my points is that after late April 1945, the war with Japan was over. The Japanese had contacted the US through indirect diplomatic channels to find out if the US would accept the surrender of Japan on the condition the Emperor survives, and Truman, as the new US President, puffed up and replied through the press that he would accept nothing less than "Unconditional Surrender".
From that point in the war, I hold Truman accountable for each and every US and Allied life lost. Not to mention the enemy lives needlessly lost.

The worst part of it is the conditions of the final surrender almost 5 months later... do you know what they were? The US agreed the Emperor could remain, though MacArthur insisted he could not retain a claim to divinity (Japan Reconstruction is another issue).

So the US fought a totally senseless campaign to achieve not a single advantage. Part of the problem was the obsession Truman had with getting Stalin to declare war on Japan. A stupid thing, and as the records now show, even our other allies could not understand Truman's myopia.... though Truman's letters to his wife shed some light on his Stalin fixation.

At any rate, the use of Atomic Bombs would have been OK, if they were necessary... but as the military leaders of the day knew, and as our allies knew, and even as Stalin pointe out, the Japs were beaten. As as we now know, the Jap leaders began discussing their surrender amongst themselves in September of 1944, though they did not reach out through backchannels until the spring of 1945 with their intentions.

Well, feel free to study Truman with an open mind... his actions were nothing less than high treason, as far as I'm concerned. But admittedly, Truman's political background was one of supporting criminals in exchange for their support of his political career, esp. early on.... so his actions as President and his shunning by FDR were actually pretty commensurate with his weak character.

:)
 
I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree with regard to worrying about the lives of the enemy. I'm not saying wantonly killing them is fine, but doing anything to save the lives of ALLIED lives over that of the enemy is fine in my book. Oh, and btw, while not an officer, I was in the Marines and would never risk a fellow Marines life just to worry about saving the enemy's life. In my mind, 1 American/Allied life is more precious than 1 million of the enemy's, and if killing 1 million enemy would save one American or one of our allies, so be it.

Almost forgot...I'm pissed that Truman did eventually cave and allow for the conditions. They should have been forced to accept unconditional surrender period.
 
I'm not saying wantonly killing them is fine, but doing anything to save the lives of ALLIED lives over that of the enemy is fine in my book.
This is a different subject... we're not talking about trading hypothetical lives. I insist on holding Truman historically accountable for the actions he chose to take, and this includes extending the war past April 1945... May at the latest. All the subsequent blood of Americans (& Allies & Enemies) is on his hands for that.

Dropping the Bomb did "help" end the war that was already won.... but delaying it got tens of thousands of more Americans killed and wounded... for no additional gain.

When Truman should have used the bomb(s) against the Reds in teh Korean war, he sacked his best General and condemned tens of thousands of more US Servicemen, including some in my family, to death. May the gates of hell hit Truman's rear to speed him in....

I'd have nuked all of southern China if necessary to teach the evil Red Chinese a lesson. And if the USSR wanted a piece of it, give it to them too. But they did not, esp. to defend the Red Chinese whom they were not particularly fond of.

So:
1. Japan should not have been nuked, as history records almost every General, Admiral, and advisor of the era stating clearly.

2. Red China should have been converted into nuclear wasteland, if they would not back off after the first few nukes.

So Truman got it backwards, I guess you could say.

BTW, read the Truman-MacArthur cables. It was MacArthur that was concerned with saving American life, not Truman. Truman is the first President in US history to deliberately order the deaths of US Servicemen in a war he had no intention of letting them win.

:)
 
Hmm...well I'm the first to say I don't want to be considered closed-minded, I'll check up on this, thanks for the information.

Have to say I DO agree with you about Korea though, always thought that was a mistake.

Still, The Emperor was a war-criminal, and should never have been let off the hook.
 
He was absoloutely right to drop the atom bomb. Operation Olympic would have caused too many casualties on the Allied side, the 'good' side if you will. The Japanese war crimes, particularly in occupied China were discusting; they frequently tested new biological weapons by injecting Chinese POWs eith tortuous illnesses. And if the bombs really had such a great effect on the nation as a whole then why the hell didn't they surrender after the first one? They deserved exactly what they got.
 
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I'm not saying wantonly killing them is fine, but doing anything to save the lives of ALLIED lives over that of the enemy is fine in my book.
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This is a different subject... we're not talking about trading hypothetical lives. I insist on holding Truman historically accountable for the actions he chose to take, and this includes extending the war past April 1945... May at the latest. All the subsequent blood of Americans (& Allies & Enemies) is on his hands for that.

Dropping the Bomb did "help" end the war that was already won.... but delaying it got tens of thousands of more Americans killed and wounded... for no additional gain.

When Truman should have used the bomb(s) against the Reds in teh Korean war, he sacked his best General and condemned tens of thousands of more US Servicemen, including some in my family, to death. May the gates of hell hit Truman's rear to speed him in....

I'd have nuked all of southern China if necessary to teach the evil Red Chinese a lesson. And if the USSR wanted a piece of it, give it to them too. But they did not, esp. to defend the Red Chinese whom they were not particularly fond of.

So:
1. Japan should not have been nuked, as history records almost every General, Admiral, and advisor of the era stating clearly.

2. Red China should have been converted into nuclear wasteland, if they would not back off after the first few nukes.

So Truman got it backwards, I guess you could say.

BTW, read the Truman-MacArthur cables. It was MacArthur that was concerned with saving American life, not Truman. Truman is the first President in US history to deliberately order the deaths of US Servicemen in a war he had no intention of letting them win.
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This discussion is going off track. Still Starlifter does not have any sense of history... Consider this:
By the time of the Corean war, the ruskies also had THE BOMB. Nothing would have stopped them from using it against the Americans (they were particullarly expecting for an occasion to do so). The underdeveloped russiand, scattered on a wide area would eventually recover. The US did not then, nor now have the possibility to nuke the entire USSR. We can not say the same thing about the American cities, which are large, concentrated industrial and comercial centers.
The lives destroyed and the damages done would not be replaced for years to come.
 
I have read that the surrendur Japan offered in April of '45 would have allowed Japan to maintain control of its home territory and not give up its military assets (men and equipment etc, not conquests) The Allies didn't want to let Japan off the hook, so they rejected the deal and continued the war. Can you cite some sources for saying that it was the same offer? If you are right, then so it goes, but saying that Japan would have surrendured unconditionally without a costly invasion of their home territory just doens't sit right with me.
 
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