The attack on Syria

[innonimatu]

Idk, it makes perfect sense to me in context not as a war-winning weapon - chemical weapons have never really been that - but as a terror weapon.

It would make sense as a terror weapon (Saddam did it). But not in the context of the war in Syria where everyone know that chemical weapon use would provide an excuse for outside intervention against the government. That intervention was a far bigger threat than any advantage the use of chemical weapons might have. Thanks to it Syria could be kept partially isolated, declared a pariah state, and lose control over about 1/3 of its territory, still today occupied by troops of foreign powers.

 

[Lexicus]

It would make sense as a terror weapon (Saddam did it). But not in the context of the war in Syria where everyone know that chemical weapon use would provide an excuse for outside intervention against the government. That intervention was a far bigger threat than any advantage the use of chemical weapons might have. Thanks to it Syria could be kept partially isolated, declared a pariah state, and lose control over about 1/3 of its territory, still today occupied by troops of foreign powers.

Well, Syria gambled and won on Western military intervention - Obama's "red line" turned out to be a load of crap, probably fortunately for all concerned. Honestly, I think it's rather silly to argue "this action doesn't really make sense" means a state couldn't have done something.
States behave irrationally often enough, the more so when they are under the kind of stress the Syrian state has been under.

Syria was already a pariah state heading for the outcome you describe because the security forces opened fire on demonstrators and the peaceful uprising turned into a rebellion as a result.

 

[innonimatu]

Well, Syria gambled and won on Western military intervention - Obama's "red line" turned out to be a load of crap, probably fortunately for all concerned. Honestly, I think it's rather silly to argue "this action doesn't really make sense" means a state couldn't have done something.

But id dint won. Not being totally crushed like Libya is not really winning. Syria still has about 1/3 of its territory occupied by foreign powers. Syria is getting routinely bombed, even Biden has seen fit to inaugurate his killings as president there. Syria remains financially and commercially embargoed with most of the world. All of this is possible because the narrative of the uniquely evil syrian regime, as opposed to the nice dictator in Cairo for example, was successfully pushed. And the chemical weapons allegations were a major building block of that narrative.

 

[Lexicus]

Meh, I don't agree that the use of chemical weapons was so important in turning Syria into a pariah state. That process was already far gone by the time of the incidents with which we're concerned here.

The Syrian government actually survived, and controls a significant amount of its territory. That may not be a total victory, but it is a victory. They didn't end up like Iraq or Libya.

 

[innonimatu]

Survived but not for lack of trying to destroy it and throw the whole of Syria into never-ending anarchy. As it is the project remains half-completed.

Remember the white helmets? They were funded as a regime change tool, a propaganda outfit (the Oscar-winning "documentary" and all).

There are some news on the hundreds of millions spent on that regime-change tool:

This May 7, the Dutch-language newspaper de Volkskrant published a report revealing that the Netherlands had investigated the Mayday Rescue Foundation for fraud.
Western European governments poured more than €100 million ($121 million) into Mayday to fund the White Helmets, including Britain, Germany, Canada, Denmark, and the Netherlands. The United States also pitched in, sending tens of millions of dollars to the White Helmets.

The Dutch government contributed €12.5 million ($15.2 million) to Mayday. But by late 2018, the Netherlands suspected corruption and stopped funding the organization, “due to concerns in The Hague about financial supervision and the organization,” de Volkskrant wrote.
[...]
The May 2021 report in de Volkskrant revealed that when Western governments learned of the corruption scandal at the Mayday Rescue Foundation, they immediately plotted to cover it up.

When Le Mesurier admitted fraud and died three days later, Western diplomats quickly convened a series of “crisis meetings” in the Dutch consulate in Istanbul, the newspaper said.

“The Netherlands saw itself politically as ‘extra vulnerable,'” de Volkskrant wrote. “After all, Mayday is located in Amsterdam. The millions of payments from the foundation went through Dutch accounts.”

When accountants subsequently investigated and found serious irregularities, the donor countries continued their damage control.
[...]
As Dutch government officials told de Volkskrant, “Fraud cannot be proven because ‘critical’ parts of the accounts are ‘not traceable.'”
[...]
When an officer asks which expenses cannot be audited, a colleague replies, ‘All expenses to the White Helmets.’

I can't read dutch but I suspect this is is accurately reported. Perhaps someone here can verify it. The main operative of the while helmets project, as we know, had a fast encounter with the pavement some time back. Opportune.

Despite the corruption documented by the Dutch government, Western state funding for the White Helmets has continued, as the United States and European Union have doubled down on their dirty war against Syria.

The US and EU have imposed one of the most aggressive sanctions regimes in modern history to destabilize Syria and oust its government. The de facto blockade, amounting to collective punishment of millions of civilians, has unleashed a large-scale economic depression, fuel shortage, and food crisis.

Meanwhile, the Netherlands resumed its support for the White Helmets during the Covid-19 pandemic in 2020, claiming to use the group to provide humanitarian assistance to insurgent-held territory in Syria.
[...]
The BBC – which The Grayzone exposed for covertly participating in UK Foreign Office information warfare campaigns – even created an error-filled, hagiographic podcast series dedicated to rewriting the history of the dirty war on Syria, sanctifying Le Mesurier, and rehabilitating the image of Mayday. Its subtle title? Mayday.

Another regime-change lobby group called the Commission for International Justice and Accountability (CIJA) received an estimated €42 million ($50 million) in funding from the United States and Western European nations to wage legal warfare, or lawfare, on Syria – and collaborated with al-Qaeda in the process.

CIJA, too, was investigated for large-scale fraud. As The Grayzone reported, the European Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) formally accused CIJA of fraud, “submission of false documents, irregular invoicing, and profiteering.” The EU regulator even recommended that legal authorities in the UK, the Netherlands, and Belgium prosecute CIJA.

This is the use to which the "foreign aid" budgets in several european countries is being put to. Lately a US DOD contractor has been planting stories lies about how the "syrian regime" is exporting drugs. Those sanctions to economically strange Syria don't justify themselves... The problem is that these are the very same drugs that were smuggled into and then manufactured in Syria for use by the US/Turkey/Saudi sponsored jihads. Just go back a few years and read the news about that. Now the "syrian regime" is supposed to be to blame for the narcotics production introduced there by the western intelligence agencies. Following the script of so many previous wars.

 

[Berzerker]

the home of the Hague is guilty of war crimes?

my god we suck

 

[Oerdin]

I see no evidence of that. I do see evidence that people involved with the charity were stealing money but that is part for the course with an mideast entity. We are talking about cultures of corruption. The rest of the nonsense about regime change via a humanitarian group is just garbage Russian propaganda with no basis in evidence or fact which I have seen. Remember the posters making these ubfounded and unsupported claims are the same posters who peddled long disproven lies and conspiracy theories pretending Syria didn't routinely use chemical weapons and who also lied about the Russian missile which shot down a civilian airliner over Ukraine. Take their wild claims with plenty of salt.