The attack on Syria

[Broken_Erika]

You cannot be so naive as to think things have changed.

Things have changed, things got stupider.

 

[innonimatu]

The thing is how long will the lies survive. Long enough to be called yesterdays news.

True. But to some degree they are noticed. There was a lot of enthusiasm for the destruction of Libya (even here). Less so for the attacks on Syria, and apparently next to none for a war on Venezuela or Iran.

 

[r16]

it's just our sunnier Sunni brothers . Think they understand the world , they felt they were the only backstabbers without principles and the world would feel to do something for the chemical weapons usage after devastating Iraq for actual use before the 1990s and possibility of use against America and the shams before the invasion in 2003 .

 

[r16]

so , yours idiotly searches the forum for the latest thread and this seems possible .

amazing thing "happens" . New Turkey has been even admitting suppliying TOW missiles to the beardies , even bragging that's why Syrians have been unable to advance in the last 3 months , even pushed back in places . Then some plane strikes a New Turkey convoy . Ankara claims 3 civilians were killed , 12 wounded . Even if the Irresuction quickly declare a commander of theirs was "martyred" . The convoy stops , in a day or two beardies give up two towns . Al Crusading claims maybe the rebels were exhausted , maybe new tactics like actually bombing beardies on part of the Regime

putin , the little Dictator of Russia , meanwhile fears internet shaping of the local elections in Moscow . Had he chosen to face New Turkey , even when the Su-24 was shot down , he would win . Because as the Disgrace of July 15th proves they have won , they want to enjoy the fruits of victory and they don't want to be hold responsible for anything in anything . They won't fight , just like NATO will not come to fight to defend this country and America will not either . Means the peoples of Syria who fight as it's the only job they can have (New Turkey's Daily pay being 100 dollars last year) will not risk action , if New Turkey's brave talks do not cover them as a tripwire for massive US destruction of their enemies .

 

[r16]

then stuff happens , as it always does . This country is slated for destruction , despite the timetable is always off . August 30th is the anniversary of the defeat of Greeks in 1922 , which then leads to the Republic . And it being Friday , the day of prayers , the Religious Affairs , just naturally , just as you would expect a senseless momemtum would carry them forward , like a piece of wood in a river , refuses to mention Atatürk in the sermon , decided by central authority and given in every mosque over the country . This is the second time it must have happened , verbal fights in a mosque , the imam challenged by some of the worshippers and the divisions now forming in the "congregation of the mosque" .

then amazingly , the Syrians in Idlip , move out of their mosques and demonstrate . New Turkey media says against Esad and Russia . The few remaining non-New Turkey media declare they have burned posters of the PM . "Traitor, traitor, traitor / [Army of Petrol] is a traitor" is their chant . Everybody fears the Turkish Army , if they are professionals with at least half a wit , so our sunnier Sunni Brothers insist calling the replacement of the now dead Turkish Army as if it is the one . Al Crusading even interviews one , who declares if the Turks do not stop , the Russians of course , they will all become refugees to Europe .

works its wonder , too . Like a charm . Russia declares a ceasefire , Americans bomb Idlip instead , only to show they have planes and they can reach that part of Syria , too . Not because the Syrian refugees can pass Victor Orban , the little fascist in Budapest ... The little dictator of Russia , Putin by the name , stops operations , because we Turks should not ever see that the PM has no control on the Arab masses , the heroic freedom fighters , the heart-eaters . Oh , why , Putin , the first of his name , will get another percentage with selling us fighter jets . The seperatists are on a leash as America fears shadows lurking in the dark , who will scare the Turk ? Ah , of course , our sunnier Sunni brothers , who else ?

some A-K-P official calls (those who criticize the sermon) as "sons of whres" , closes his entire fecebook page after 7 hours , he has failed to recognize PM , his boss, has PM's Information office to have an exhibition that shows Atatürk commanding the 1922 offensive .

the election bellyaching thread has the theatre performance on the train , you remember ? It appears on TV , a local channel of Antalya that's on the satellite . They were train hopping , might not be the "vagon" yours idiotly was on . But the Governor of Antalya , was the Governor of the province ı live and was the Governor of Hakkari before that ? Where he refused to allow a single military operation against the seperatists , when they were our brothers and they would receive a quarter of the country and share the rest with us , the shortfall being made up with conquering Syria ...

far less amazingly the very same August 30 sees a concert or whatever in a synagogue in Izmir , a combined crowd of Muslims , Christians and Jews who chant "Atatürk" after the concert . Not that the fall of A-K-P would start "investigations" - like obviously the support of the Peoples of the Book (Christians and Jews for those you unfamiliar with the phrase) was all about joining the EU and ending the hate they were receiving in increasing doses in an era Bin Ladin "represents" Islam . Not amazingly enough , there are attempts to accuse yours idiotly for plotting this which then obviously translates as Monday 26th involved certain people having dinner , apparently of fish , with yours idiotly not present . This guy who used to fix pipes when my late father used to work on roofs , saw me not , even if we (ı and he ) know it very well that he did ... Don't know what ı ever did to him . Not becoming funny is an horrible thing , luckily ı amount to nothing ...


translation ? Even Hizbullah of Lebanon has gone into a spat with Israel , as they must avoid winning in Syria and hurt Putin's percentage ...

 

[red_elk]

Strange US airstrike in Idlib, they bombed what appears to be anti-Assad rebels camp, amidst successful government offensive. Official explanation is that they destroyed Al-Nusra terrorists, but the area is full of them and has been bombed by Russia and Syria for years. There are different conspiracy theories why this particular camp was important.

 

[r16]

as them Russians sweep and stop the "terrorists" depending on what contracts they get from New Turkey Americans remind they can operate within Russian SAM cover (stuff which which ı will have SEAD and DEAD with like wild abandon) to show they can defend their bearded boots on the ground and with that ı do not mean US Special Forces following local customs . Meanwhile New Turkey insists it was a Russian in a Su-22 that stopped New Turkey cold , because no Syrian can ever dare anything New Turkey , you know due to the difference between "White" and "Brown" . Yeah , it was another "White" who did that , with streets remembering ı used to talk about an Ukrainian back in the day . Specializing in L-39 / rocket pod stuff against oil supplies in fuel trucks from New Turkey to the Irresuction . No "Brown" can do anything against New Turkey , man .

 

[innonimatu]

Message for anyone who might be tempted into believing warmongering "humanitarian" stories in the future. The OPCW was pressed into producing a report that did not call out the known lies about the "chemical attacks":

Were the strikes justified? An inspector from the eight-member team sent to Douma has just come forward with disturbing allegations about the international watchdog, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, which was tasked with obtaining and examining evidence.

Involved in collecting samples as well as drafting the OPCW’s interim report, he claims his evidence was suppressed and a new report was written by senior managers with assertions that contradicted his findings.

The inspector went public with his allegations at a recent all-day briefing in Brussels for people from several countries working in disarmament, international law, military operations, medicine and intelligence. They included Richard Falk, former UN special rapporteur on Palestine and Major-General John Holmes, a distinguished former commander of Britain’s special forces. The session was organised by the Courage Foundation, a New York-based fund which supports whistle-blowers. I attended as an independent reporter.
...
He is the second member of the Douma Fact-Finding Mission to have alleged that scientific evidence was suppressed. In May this year an unpublished report by Ian Henderson, a South African ballistics expert who was in charge of the mission’s engineering sub-team was leaked. The team examined two suspicious cylinders which rebels said were filled with chlorine gas. One cylinder was found on the roof of a damaged building where over two dozen bodies were photographed. The other lay on a bed on the upper floor of a nearby house below a hole in the roof. The inspectors were able to check the scene because Syrian troops drove rebel fighters out of the area a few days after the alleged gas attack.

Assessing the damage to the cylinder casings and to the roofs, the inspectors considered the hypothesis that the cylinders had been dropped from Syrian government helicopters, as the rebels claimed. All but one member of the team concurred with Henderson in concluding that there was a higher probability that the cylinders had been placed manually. Henderson did not go so far as to suggest that opposition activists on the ground had staged the incident, but this inference could be drawn. Nevertheless Henderson’s findings were not mentioned in the published OPCW report.

Within days of rebel-supplied videos of dead children and adults in the aftermath of the alleged attack in Douma Francois DeLattre, France’s representative at the UN Security Council, said the videos and photos showed victims with “symptoms of a potent nerve agent combined with chlorine gas”.

The Douma fact-finding team quickly discovered this was wrong. Blood and other biological samples taken from alleged victims examined in Turkey (where some had fled after government forces regained control of Douma in mid-April) showed no evidence of nerve agents. Nor was there any in the surrounding buildings or vegetation in Douma. As the Interim Report, published on July 6 2018, put it: “No organophosphorus nerve agents or their degradation products were detected, either in the environmental samples or in plasma samples from the alleged casualties”.

The next sentence said “Various chlorinated organic chemicals were found”. The indirect reference to chlorine was reported in many media as proof of the use of lethal gas. According to Alex there were huge internal arguments at the OPCW before the Interim report was released. Chlorinated organic chemicals (COCs) are present in the natural environment so one crucial point in discovering what actually happened at Douma was to measure the amount in the locations where the two cylinders were found and in the other parts of the two buildings and the street outside.

As Alex put it, “if the finding of these chemicals at the alleged site is to be used as an indicator that chlorine gas was present in the atmosphere, they should at least be shown to be present at levels significantly higher than what is present in the environment already”.

But when the analysis of these key levels came back from the laboratories the results were kept with Sami Barrek, a Tunisian who was the Duma fact-finding mission’s leader. Against normal expectations they were not passed on to the inspector who was drafting the OPCW’s interim report on Douma.

The inspector did, however, have the analysis from the samples of blood, hair, and other biological data from eleven alleged victims who had gone from Douma to Turkey. In no case did the samples reveal any relevant chemicals. On this basis he wrote in his report that the signs and symptoms of victims were not consistent with poisoning from chlorine. Instead of an attack producing multiple fatalities there had been “a non chemical-related event”, it said.

The inspector who drafted the original report was furious when he realised it was to be replaced by a doctored management version. He wrote an email of complaint to the OPCW’s director general. The DG was Ahmet Uzumcu, a Turkish diplomat but his chef de cabinet, the man considered to have the most power in the OPCW on day-to-day issues was Bob Fairweather, a British career diplomat. (He has since been succeeded by Sebastien Braha, a diplomat from another anti-Assad government, France).
...
On July 4 there was another intervention. Fairweather, the chef de cabinet, invited several members of the drafting team to his office. There they found three US officials who were cursorily introduced without making clear which US agencies they represented. The Americans told them emphatically that the Syrian regime had conducted a gas attack, and that the two cylinders found on the roof and upper floor of the building contained 170 kilograms of chlorine. The inspectors left Fairweather’s office, feeling that the invitation to the Americans to address them was unacceptable pressure and a violation of the OPCW’s declared principles of independence and impartiality.

The same media that plastered all over the headlines the false allegations by Francois DeLattre and others doing the job of warmongering for their governments, now absolutely ignores this whistleblowing from the OPCW. It can only get published in those web-sites that the naive are warned to never read because they are "conspiracy theories". There are whistle-blowers and whistle-blowers it seems...

The alleged evidence of a "chlorine attack", the warmongers' fallback once the "nerve gas attack" line had to be dropped, "were no higher than you would expect in any household environment" and "much lower than what would be expected in environmental samples, comparable to or even lower than the World Health Organisation’s recommended chlorine levels for drinking water". In plain words, the OPCW investigation found zero evidence of any chemical attack in Douma.

Now you'll dismiss it as a conspiracy theory and in future wars keep believing any warmongering theory the government PR machines plant for convening repetition in the lazy media?

 

[Oerdin]

Oh, you are denying the numerous chemical attacks done by the Syrian dictator, huh?

 

[Berzerker]

looks like experts investigating an alleged gas attack are claiming it didn't happen and the report was fiction

 

[FriendlyFire]

looks like experts investigating an alleged gas attack are claiming it didn't happen and the report was fiction

You didnt read anything again did you ?
There was a dissenting opinion that the chemicals may have been delivered by ground instead of being dropped.

 

[Berzerker]

I read the quotes posted by inno, what did you read?

The Douma fact-finding team quickly discovered this was wrong. Blood and other biological samples taken from alleged victims examined in Turkey (where some had fled after government forces regained control of Douma in mid-April) showed no evidence of nerve agents. Nor was there any in the surrounding buildings or vegetation in Douma.

The inspector did, however, have the analysis from the samples of blood, hair, and other biological data from eleven alleged victims who had gone from Douma to Turkey. In no case did the samples reveal any relevant chemicals. On this basis he wrote in his report that the signs and symptoms of victims were not consistent with poisoning from chlorine. Instead of an attack producing multiple fatalities there had been “a non chemical-related event”, it said.

The inspector who drafted the original report was furious when he realised it was to be replaced by a doctored management version.

did you read that FF?

 

[FriendlyFire]

I read the quotes posted by inno, what did you read?
did you read that FF?

You now believe Whistle Blowers now ? right RIGHT ?
and counterpunch website ?
Because I have some Ukraine Whistle blowers that you should read and believe in immediately. /s

I got mine from Independent which is that part of the report was from dissenters on the team and wasn't included into the final report.
Now if this whistle blower claims have merit it will be picked up probably later date.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-video-conspiracy-theory-russia-a8927116.html

 

[Berzerker]

You now believe Whistle Blowers now ? right RIGHT ? and counterpunch website ? Because I have some Ukraine Whistle blowers that you should read and believe in immediately. /s

I got mine from Independent which is that part of the report was from dissenters on the team and wasn't included into the final report. Now if this whistle blower claims have merit it will be picked up probably later date.

We have a thread for Ukraine and the whistle blower, but where did I say they were unbelievable? You accused me of not reading inno's article and you're changing the subject to your article. How does that prove I didn't read his?

 

[FriendlyFire]

We have a thread for Ukraine and the whistle blower, but where did I say they were unbelievable? You accused me of not reading inno's article and you're changing the subject to your article. How does that prove I didn't read his?

Oh you are for Whistleblowers now ? iam amazed that you would immediately accept them at face value. We'll then my apologies and welcome to the resistence.

 

[r16]

it's Obama's redline . Which was supposed to bring doom to Syria , so Irresuction used a couple of chlorine attacks . What happens afterwards is regualrly explained as Damascus using gas in locations untractable and blame the rebels and stuff for black flagging to bring American bombardment .

 

[red_elk]

This "whistleblower" evidence seems absolutely legit. First, OPCW already caught rebels lying about nerve gas attack, in order to provoke US airstrike.
Second, rebels already agreed to surrender in Douma by the time of alleged chlorine attack. It would be outright stupidity for the government to carry it out, while for rebels staging it seems easy and logical way to falsely accuse Assad in another crime.

 

[Bamspeedy]

"Rebels already agreed to surrender", funny how it still took two weeks of Russian occupation after that to "secure the area".

So the majority of experts agreed it was likely dropped from an airplane, but we are to believe the minority opinion. I am not surprised the report excludes the minority opinion. Not a cover-up. Had the minority opinion been included, Inno and Red Elk would only point to the minority opinion and say "see, their experts are saying this".

To believe in the conspiracy, you have to believe the majority of experts are in on it. Possible, but not likely. Its also possible the minority opinion is simply not true, because, (to be generous here), it is an opinion, and not all experts always agree on everything.
Or (to put out a counter-conspiracy). The minority experts are the ones being bribed, or pressured, or whatever.

 

[red_elk]

"Rebels already agreed to surrender", funny how it still took two weeks of Russian occupation after that to "secure the area".

Funny indeed. The area didn't magically come under government control next second after they agreed to surrender.
"Russian occupation" and evacuation in Idlib were the conditions put by the rebels in order to leave the area. It was safer for them to have Russian military police to secure the area instead of Syrian government troops.

 

[Berzerker]

Oh you are for Whistleblowers now ? iam amazed that you would immediately accept them at face value. We'll then my apologies and welcome to the resistence.

I usually am when they come forward so I can judge their credibility, I believed both Anita Hill and Ford. Although with Ford, Kavanaugh's response made that easy. Now where did I say I didn't believe the whistle blower? Where did I say he was lying? You keep making accusations without backing them up.

My only criticism of him was the problem of bias and hypocrisy, an associate of Brennan and Biden got mad because the President asked Ukraine for help investigating the 2016 election after 3 years of investigating Trump? Yeah, I want to know where this whistle blower was the past few years and what he was doing before I decide if Trump did something (uniquely) wrong.

I want to know if he was involved with or witnessed Ukrainians and Democrats looking for dirt on Trump and if so, why he didn't blow a whistle then. As for this whistle blower, they came forward. The author of the report should know if it was changed.