Well with 4 turns until Rifling's finished, add a few turns of 0% research to upgrade the most experienced units and to move everything into position, we should probably be ready to go in about 10 turns. One thing to consider would be switching 1 or 2 cities to spies and putting them in the target cities ready to incite revolts. It would take putting espionage spending up to 10%, maybe even 20% and concentrating it all on Willem, the initial invasion would be smoother, though it would delay everything, so it's probably just best to not bother, CR Rifles won't have any problems with Longbows anyway, or at least they shouldn't.
The Average Joes
- Thread starter 50_dollar_bag
- Start date
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
Spoiler for original post
Sorry meant to post my thoughts yesterday.
Turn report.
When checking the civics screen I got the instinctive urge to switch to Mercantilism, an obvious no-no for our variant.
On to trades:
Traded for silk from Charlemagne for something... didn't write it down.
Traded Ivory from Fred corn/pigs
Traded corn to Surya for 7 gpt
Pigs went to Monty for 11 gpt
Traded paper to Monty for 120 gold plus +2 to relations which might come in handy at some stage, he's still at cautious.
Printing Press went to Surya for Literature/Engineering and 130 gold, also gives us a discount on Chemistry.
turn 226
Sigtuna completes it's harbor and subsequently the harbor master quest, bit of a toss-up between the free gold per turn or combat 1 for naval units. I chose combat 1 as we'll always be lagging a little with XP for our units.
Now starts on a hindu monastery to get the whales under our control.
Whip the bank in Nidaros.
Turn 227
Nidaros
Bank => spy
Turn 228
Rifling=>Chem
Turn 231
Start promoting Berserks to CR2 then upgrading to rifles.
Bring a few caravels back to start shipping spies over to Holland.
Funnel all our Espionage points to the freaky-deaky Dutch.
Turn 233
Chem=>drama. Tone down research a little for upgrades.
Turn 237
Willem decides open borders would be a good idea, I declined but a few turns of foreign trade might have been worth it in hindsight.
Configure Nidaros to stagnate by sacrificing a cottage into a workshop.
Turn 238
Turn research back up to 60% with a little bit of loss, heading towards Communism via Scientific method.
Turn 240
hand over the save.
Thoughts.
Workshops will be pretty useful to keep growth in check until State property when the loss of food is negated, Caste System might be a worthwhile civic to run with the +1 hammer to workshops, we should be past the need to whip our homeland cities mostly.
Regarding war.
If it were me I'd just attack in a clockwise direction starting with Nijmegan. There's a few non-City raider rifles in the galleons for city garrison duty, I tried to make it 2 CR rifles with 1 unpromoted but the ratio isn't quite like that.
Another galleon wouldn't hurt as there's some reinforcements waiting on our homeland.
Colony is right, the Hague is the only city with wonders, Amsterdam looks like a keeper.
I'd prehaps leave Rotterdam to ze Germans.
I've put a missionary in a caravel to spy on proceedings in the Deutsch-Dutch war.
I would try and avoid razing any cities, each Dutch city has 4 religions which would be pretty handy under free religion, although I can see us staying in Theocracy most of the game, so whatever.
Regarding combat odds, I just hold right click on the target unit and the odds are displayed this can be done over water too, just make sure you release the click over water to cancel the action.
And Bug mod d shows a great person bar below the tech bar, very handy to keep those nasty specialists in check. Noticed there's 51 GPPs in Nidaros whoever did that gets a slap on the wrist.
Spoiler :
loaded into 6 galleons just off the East coast.
Sorry meant to post my thoughts yesterday.
Turn report.
When checking the civics screen I got the instinctive urge to switch to Mercantilism, an obvious no-no for our variant.
On to trades:
Traded for silk from Charlemagne for something... didn't write it down.
Traded Ivory from Fred corn/pigs
Traded corn to Surya for 7 gpt
Pigs went to Monty for 11 gpt
Traded paper to Monty for 120 gold plus +2 to relations which might come in handy at some stage, he's still at cautious.
Printing Press went to Surya for Literature/Engineering and 130 gold, also gives us a discount on Chemistry.
turn 226
Sigtuna completes it's harbor and subsequently the harbor master quest, bit of a toss-up between the free gold per turn or combat 1 for naval units. I chose combat 1 as we'll always be lagging a little with XP for our units.
Now starts on a hindu monastery to get the whales under our control.
Whip the bank in Nidaros.
Turn 227
Nidaros
Bank => spy
Turn 228
Rifling=>Chem
Turn 231
Start promoting Berserks to CR2 then upgrading to rifles.
Bring a few caravels back to start shipping spies over to Holland.
Funnel all our Espionage points to the freaky-deaky Dutch.
Turn 233
Chem=>drama. Tone down research a little for upgrades.
Turn 237
Willem decides open borders would be a good idea, I declined but a few turns of foreign trade might have been worth it in hindsight.
Configure Nidaros to stagnate by sacrificing a cottage into a workshop.
Turn 238
Turn research back up to 60% with a little bit of loss, heading towards Communism via Scientific method.
Turn 240
hand over the save.
Thoughts.
Workshops will be pretty useful to keep growth in check until State property when the loss of food is negated, Caste System might be a worthwhile civic to run with the +1 hammer to workshops, we should be past the need to whip our homeland cities mostly.
Regarding war.
If it were me I'd just attack in a clockwise direction starting with Nijmegan. There's a few non-City raider rifles in the galleons for city garrison duty, I tried to make it 2 CR rifles with 1 unpromoted but the ratio isn't quite like that.
Another galleon wouldn't hurt as there's some reinforcements waiting on our homeland.
Colony is right, the Hague is the only city with wonders, Amsterdam looks like a keeper.
I'd prehaps leave Rotterdam to ze Germans.
I've put a missionary in a caravel to spy on proceedings in the Deutsch-Dutch war.
I would try and avoid razing any cities, each Dutch city has 4 religions which would be pretty handy under free religion, although I can see us staying in Theocracy most of the game, so whatever.
Regarding combat odds, I just hold right click on the target unit and the odds are displayed this can be done over water too, just make sure you release the click over water to cancel the action.
And Bug mod d shows a great person bar below the tech bar, very handy to keep those nasty specialists in check. Noticed there's 51 GPPs in Nidaros whoever did that gets a slap on the wrist.
Simple Simon
Simpleton
wow, sounds like you set things up nicely!
but I do not think there is any stack to burn - unless Willi hid it deep in his territory......
@colony: if you can play within the next 48 hours, please do so! I am away from my CIV PC.
but I do not think there is any stack to burn - unless Willi hid it deep in his territory......
@colony: if you can play within the next 48 hours, please do so! I am away from my CIV PC.
I can play this afternoon, or in the evening, but I wouldn't mind some input on the plan first. I was going to split the stack into 2 and go for Nijmegan and Rotterdam at the same time, then head to Amsterdam to heal up and then on to The Hague and Utrecht. As far as I can tell only The Hague has any Wonders in, with no shrines anywhere, so all the other cities can be kept. I'll probably only play 10 turns this round though if that's ok.
Simple Simon
Simpleton
hm, how about you use a new game with world builder to assess the combat chances of our rifles? It may be possible to attack three towns simultaneously using 6 galleons..... 
It's actually possible to check combat odds without going to war, in the normal way (select goto and hover over the defender or hold down alt and hover). The listed odds against CG1 Longbows in a 60% culture city (the majority of his defence) are 94% for C1/Cover/CR2 Rifles (we have 9 of them), 84% for C1/Cover/CR1 (6) and 24% for the unpromoted C1 units (2). There are 4 units in each of the visible cities, so split 3 ways there would be some room for bad luck, but any counter attack would be very dangerous and probably cost a couple of CR Rifles.
Simple Simon
Simpleton
actually, this did not work for me across water! 
4 LBM per city by now? that must be the war with Freddy When I checked it was max 2 LBM plus other, weaker defenders in some.
In this case your original plan sounds perfect
4 LBM per city by now? that must be the war with Freddy
When I checked it was max 2 LBM plus other, weaker defenders in some.In this case your original plan sounds perfect
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
Edited my post above with my actual turn report and thoughts on how to proceed
4 cities down, 6 to go, though Willem is prepared to capitulate already. The only units lost were 2 catapults, a caravel and a spy, quite lucky despite most battles having odds of over a 90% chance to win. Communism's finished next turn, saving us over 70 GPT once switched to SP. I started off with Nijmegan and Rotterdam, as planned, but getting to Amsterdam took slightly longer than expected and Utrecht has only just been captured. The majority of the army's in Amsterdam ATM and also conatins the only Medic we have ATM. There are 5 Rifles in Utrecht, with 2 one tile out having just captured workers, which could be used for an attack on Zhao once healed. There's also 4 round Rotterdam I left there to clean up any left over units and counterattacking ones, not that there really were any. As I said before Utrecht has to be razed and it might be worth razing Essen to to allow for some room, unless we plan on going straight for Frederick after finishing off Willem. We're at 2.4 times his power now, so it should just be a case of mopping up from here. I've been trying to group up Privateers in groups of 2 or 3, but so far only 1 group of 3 has got anywhere and that's up by Zhau, I spent a bit of time taking out a couple of Caravels with some of the others for the experience.
Germany and the HRE have Steel, and the HRE has Military Science too, though apart from that they're still a long way behind in tech. Everyone has oil in their territory except for Germany. One problem in the future might be that only Frederick's pleased with us ATM, Charlemagne asked for Education, which wasn't gong to happen and Suryavarman wanted us to stop trading with Frederick. Though actually the whole world seems a bit pissed off with each other looking at the glance screen:
I mainly focused on building Riflemen, with coastal cities building either Frigates or Privateers, though two or three cities are building buildings. As for where to go next I tried drawing lines, but it's not very clear, but it seems reasonable to me,providing some reinforcements get there in time.
Here's the autolog with the full combat details, looks like the auto-logger got slightly more detailed combat descritpions since I last used it.
Edit: And as usual I miss something by about 20 minutes, I'd already started playing when you posted that edit, though the main difference from a quick look over it seems to be leaving Rotterdam for later, which might've been best, should've realised Hamburg would have a lot of culture by now
Germany and the HRE have Steel, and the HRE has Military Science too, though apart from that they're still a long way behind in tech. Everyone has oil in their territory except for Germany. One problem in the future might be that only Frederick's pleased with us ATM, Charlemagne asked for Education, which wasn't gong to happen and Suryavarman wanted us to stop trading with Frederick. Though actually the whole world seems a bit pissed off with each other looking at the glance screen:
Spoiler :
I mainly focused on building Riflemen, with coastal cities building either Frigates or Privateers, though two or three cities are building buildings. As for where to go next I tried drawing lines, but it's not very clear, but it seems reasonable to me,providing some reinforcements get there in time.
Spoiler :
Here's the autolog with the full combat details, looks like the auto-logger got slightly more detailed combat descritpions since I last used it.
Spoiler :
Edit: And as usual I miss something by about 20 minutes, I'd already started playing when you posted that edit, though the main difference from a quick look over it seems to be leaving Rotterdam for later, which might've been best, should've realised Hamburg would have a lot of culture by now
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
Looking good colony. 
Regarding Rotterdam I think you made the right choice better to have friendly culture surrounding a city than hostile, with Willem still in control of rotterdam it would have made land travel difficult out of Nijmegan.
Have either Monty or Charlemagne got Astronomy yet?
I'm just wondering about the courthouse builds in former Holland. The 3.13 patch that tied colony costs to distance from the palace didn't it? Therefore only leaving number of cities maintance which is capped at 6 (3 with Courthouses) when we switch to State Property. We might be better off with libraries as first builds.
That put's you up Simon.
Regarding Rotterdam I think you made the right choice better to have friendly culture surrounding a city than hostile, with Willem still in control of rotterdam it would have made land travel difficult out of Nijmegan.
Have either Monty or Charlemagne got Astronomy yet?
I'm just wondering about the courthouse builds in former Holland. The 3.13 patch that tied colony costs to distance from the palace didn't it? Therefore only leaving number of cities maintance which is capped at 6 (3 with Courthouses) when we switch to State Property. We might be better off with libraries as first builds.
That put's you up Simon.
Simple Simon
Simpleton
got it, will post ideas before playing.
Simple Simon
Simpleton
Actually, what are our ideas about victory type?
Conquest?
Domination?
Do we want to keep the second continent, or do we want to turn it into a colony?
colony, I'll follow your plan for the conquest
Research: I want those ships-of-the-line! Not that we really need them now, but a stack of them can really hurt a city. It is only one tech to research anyways. After that: beeline for Infantry?
Conquest?
Domination?
Do we want to keep the second continent, or do we want to turn it into a colony?
colony, I'll follow your plan for the conquest
Research: I want those ships-of-the-line! Not that we really need them now, but a stack of them can really hurt a city. It is only one tech to research anyways. After that: beeline for Infantry?
Simple Simon
Simpleton
I am beginning to hate my PC - I again had several blue-screen crashes. Sadly, one of them destroyed my report *.doc, so I have to go by memory. Also, no nice pics.
Overall, WW hit us pretty bad, so I decided to take a few risks and get rid of Willi ASAP. Took 8 turns, and costs us two of our highly promoted CR2 amphibious rifles!
I tried to replace them by building new 'Zerks for upgrade - why didn't we think of that before? Only one got finished, though, as we developed Mil Science. I
badly and remove Frigate cover from our Galleons - one (empty - phew!) Galleon dies.I also tried to use our Privs to kill as many small ships and fishing boats as possible, but Freddy and Sury each employed a Pompeius. Remaining Privs should go offshore a lot, or they will die soon!
We should either settle the 'holes' in the Nomorelands (former Netherlands), or accept Freddy settling there. I vote for the former - we could rush settlers in the large captured cities.
The Nomorelands
While Sury looks like a target atm, with probably not more than 25 defenders (LBM at best) on this part of his empire,
I am much in favor of hitting HRE ASAP. Charlie has Grens, and the sooner we give him a bloody nose, the better. Alternatively, we could attack Freddy.
Troops are here:
others are healing in the southwest of Holland.
And someone loves his 'lil boats
Simple Simon
Simpleton
please note that I left a bunch of units un-moved, so that the next player can move them depending on our next target.
Edit: Utrecht should have been razed, but we could not easily know that: it has a resident Scientist.
Edit: Utrecht should have been razed, but we could not easily know that: it has a resident Scientist.
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
Got it.
Hmmm never thought about this scenario. If it adds to GPPs then it's a problem, we just need to come up with a suitable handicap
Edit: Utrecht should have been razed, but we could not easily know that: it has a resident Scientist.
Hmmm never thought about this scenario. If it adds to GPPs then it's a problem, we just need to come up with a suitable handicap
Simple Simon
Simpleton
Got it.
Hmmm never thought about this scenario. If it adds to GPPs then it's a problem, we just need to come up with a suitable handicap
well, I did have two GPs, too, but both died......
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
You can't kill a great spy, he just faked his own death and he'll return to exact his vengeance
The problem with attacking Suryavarman now is that he's a vassal of Monty, so despite the tech advantage we still won't have enough units. Charlemagne's a good target next, but will take a few Rifles with him when he goes down. He annoys me in every game I play though so I wouldn't mind giving him a good seeing to. I wouldn't be too worried about any counter attacks despite having Astronomy, a few Frigates should keep him spamming ships until he can't afford any units. Frederick likes us ATM so I'd leave him until he becomes a problem.
Good work on getting rid of Willem so fast, as for the scientist we could always force a citizen in that city instead of working a cottage, it'd more than make up for the beakers he gives.
Good work on getting rid of Willem so fast, as for the scientist we could always force a citizen in that city instead of working a cottage, it'd more than make up for the beakers he gives.
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
A quick blitz and raze of a few of Monty's cities would be an interesting tactic, for all we know he's probably planning on attacking us soon anyway.
I share your sentiments towards Charlemagne, he's a pretty tough AI to get along with and a violent sort of chap.
What do you guys think about going for a conquest victory? We're pretty well set up for that, and we have some warlike neighbours. And ultimately we want to spread our averageness all over the world.
Whilst we're not done yet it seems all but wrapped up. In hindsight we either should have chosen Emperor difficulty or a non-financial civ, although no traits might have fitted the bill a little better.
I share your sentiments towards Charlemagne, he's a pretty tough AI to get along with and a violent sort of chap.
What do you guys think about going for a conquest victory? We're pretty well set up for that, and we have some warlike neighbours. And ultimately we want to spread our averageness all over the world.
Whilst we're not done yet it seems all but wrapped up. In hindsight we either should have chosen Emperor difficulty or a non-financial civ, although no traits might have fitted the bill a little better.
