The barb spawns are very challenging
- Thread starter jojobe
- Start date
Barbs do seem to be a bit more common and enthusiastic in the latest patch. But, that's only my experience from the few turns I've played using it last night. Certain barbs seem to have the "chase units down at all costs" mentality as soon as they see you. So, they're kind of predictable in that respect. Others seem to pay a bit more attention to your borders, skirting the edges unless they get a juicy target and favorable position.
Still, while daunting, especially the new Captain barb units, they don't seem impossibly difficult so far. One is definitely not going to steamroll every barb unit one comes across in the early game, that's for sure. But, barbs shouldn't be a terrible problem after a couple of cities, I'd imagine. So far, I've been able to defeat all non-special barbs I've encountered without being required to have archers to soften them up beforehand. They've presented a "challenge" but not an insurmountable one for me in my experiences with them so far.
Still, while daunting, especially the new Captain barb units, they don't seem impossibly difficult so far. One is definitely not going to steamroll every barb unit one comes across in the early game, that's for sure. But, barbs shouldn't be a terrible problem after a couple of cities, I'd imagine. So far, I've been able to defeat all non-special barbs I've encountered without being required to have archers to soften them up beforehand. They've presented a "challenge" but not an insurmountable one for me in my experiences with them so far.
I just played another game...
I feel your pain.
The barbs were whupping up on everyone. Barbs killed two civs with multiple cities and were threatening the others, from what I could see.
The problem is the strength of the special barb units, like Bandit Vigils and such. Regardless of whether or not they're leashed, the AI seems to loose tons of units to them. Also, there are too many special units with ranged attacks. (Archers and such) Those ranged attacks are high value dmg as well. Also, there are too many barbs with added defense values, making attacking them a virtual suicide run for a stack of warriors, if you can manage to cough one up.
I didn't care anything about any possible danger presented by any of the other Civs. They could have all been at war with me and I wouldn't have cared one bit. BUT, the barbs, on the other hand, had units that were just too strong for me to handle. They kept me from being able to expand and I could barely do anything else but pump out warriors or hunters. The ONLY reason I lasted until turn 150 (when I quit that game) was that I had picked up a mage with fireballs and an archer by exploring ruins early on..
With the reduction in expansion that the barbs bring, it seriously hampers the player and the AI. Sure, it could be a crap shoot, depending upon how your game starts out. But, it shouldn't be that much of a roll of the dice. Heck, I watched two AI cities get taken down by leashed units when they should have had no problem. (Minotaurs) But, their defenders had been whittled down by ranged units and probably the occasional run after a leashed captain unit.
Standard anti-barb tactics learned in previous releases doesn't help much when there's not a darn thing you can do to put a dent in a barb unit with 10 str + promotions and commanded by captain. Sheesh..
I feel your pain.
The barbs were whupping up on everyone. Barbs killed two civs with multiple cities and were threatening the others, from what I could see.
The problem is the strength of the special barb units, like Bandit Vigils and such. Regardless of whether or not they're leashed, the AI seems to loose tons of units to them. Also, there are too many special units with ranged attacks. (Archers and such) Those ranged attacks are high value dmg as well. Also, there are too many barbs with added defense values, making attacking them a virtual suicide run for a stack of warriors, if you can manage to cough one up.
I didn't care anything about any possible danger presented by any of the other Civs. They could have all been at war with me and I wouldn't have cared one bit. BUT, the barbs, on the other hand, had units that were just too strong for me to handle. They kept me from being able to expand and I could barely do anything else but pump out warriors or hunters. The ONLY reason I lasted until turn 150 (when I quit that game) was that I had picked up a mage with fireballs and an archer by exploring ruins early on..
With the reduction in expansion that the barbs bring, it seriously hampers the player and the AI. Sure, it could be a crap shoot, depending upon how your game starts out. But, it shouldn't be that much of a roll of the dice. Heck, I watched two AI cities get taken down by leashed units when they should have had no problem. (Minotaurs) But, their defenders had been whittled down by ranged units and probably the occasional run after a leashed captain unit.
Standard anti-barb tactics learned in previous releases doesn't help much when there's not a darn thing you can do to put a dent in a barb unit with 10 str + promotions and commanded by captain. Sheesh..
lastofthelight
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2006
- Messages
- 54
I've actually had several 'I want to hurl this game through my computer screen' (even if that doesn't make sense) moments at the bandits in this version. I've never seen any documentation for them or seen them mentioned anywhere, but I have a TON of 'Savage Dungeons' that cannot be explore-destroyed, conquer-destroyed, or 'settled near' destroyed, that spawn barbarian units endlessly. Completely ruins the game for me. From what I can tell though lairs will be rectified soon, so I'm assuming this will go away. I just wish I could find documentation on these suckers in the civiopedia. Its kinda crazy the efforts I've gone through trying to destroy them.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
The bandits are documented; They spawn out of Dungeons, which state in the pedia that they spawn them.
They are also explorable, not sure why you couldn't explore them.
They are also explorable, not sure why you couldn't explore them.
The bandit has 4/2 str, bandit leader/boss has 5/3, bandit vigil 8rngd str 90%(not sure on this) 7 str, and centaur archers have 4 or 5 str 3move; I'm trying to remember these guys off the top of my head here.
groups usually include either: bandit, bandit boss, centaur archer; highwaymen, highwaymen(who I forgot to put, 8str 3moves).
There's a no lairs opton in custom games that should fix your problem(although I hear the new patch also achieves this so you may want to check it out
).Vigils and the like are completely overpowered, but at least they're leashed. I was attacking an enemy barb city when, with no warning, at the beginning of the turn they spawned somewhere on the order of 5 or 6 highwaymen. They rolled over my entire invasion force.
At this point the game feels more like I'm playing against the barbarians than the other civilizations. They bottle up enemy civs, harass their cities, and generally render them completely harmless. From now on I'll be turning them off, at least until they get reasonably balanced.
At this point the game feels more like I'm playing against the barbarians than the other civilizations. They bottle up enemy civs, harass their cities, and generally render them completely harmless. From now on I'll be turning them off, at least until they get reasonably balanced.
Underpowered? Did you actually install the patch?
I was getting tier 2 stacks(no lairs enabled) before I even had axemen or archers, post-patch.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
He's talking about the new 1.31.195 patch. http://www.filefront.com/17785523/RifE-1.31.195.exe/
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Ah, you're talking about regular spawngroups. Well. Those are based entirely on what tech the player they spawn for has; In this case, the barbarian player. Seeing as that player gains tech passively from 'real' players, that would imply the AI is doing quite a bit better than you are.
Or prioritizing military techs while you go economy, or some other combination. No idea without knowing exactly what was in the stack.
Or prioritizing military techs while you go economy, or some other combination. No idea without knowing exactly what was in the stack.
I had the 2nd highest tech level in the game so they couldn't have been doing that much better...It was only about turn 160 or so on epic. In fact, the only civs that would have had archery by then were the mekara order, they seem to be doing very well at that.
Also is there any way to turn off auto-movement pathing? The game forces me to move my troops through a blizzard to enter a city I conquered and am adjacent to because the tile holds a road...
Also is there any way to turn off auto-movement pathing? The game forces me to move my troops through a blizzard to enter a city I conquered and am adjacent to because the tile holds a road...
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Barbs would be able to get it from the Mekara, would just take a while. So as I said: Comes down to the AI pursuing techs you didn't. Completely fine, and would happen in the old system as well.
And AFAIK, no.
And AFAIK, no.
I think the barbs and animal spawns are uterly glorious and I love how fun the early game is now. The only dissapointing thing about them is that once you explore all the dungeons that's it. The amount of badguys just falls dramatically. What I'd love to see is a barbarian hell option where barbarian units spawn in the fow and can build new lairs/dens/whatever.
ScrubbyTheKid
Chieftain
I like the barbs as they are now. Most civs have an easy method to get rid off barb spawns rather easily. (f.e. Khazad and their fortresses (dwarven mines), D'tesh and Thanny, Grigori and their Heroes, Svartalfar and their sinister hunters, etc. pp)
@King they do... i sometime see centaur camps appear in my line of sight
@King they do... i sometime see centaur camps appear in my line of sight
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