The barbarians are easier in FfH!

[Gamestation]

All right now I see where the AI has trouble with barbs. Marathon and raging barbs on a huge continents map. The game I was playing before was a raging barbs game on normal speed on a huge pangaea. And I now see that the AI's search parties do not come from the AI building more units but from having warriors abandon their defensive positions to go out on an all too ambitious barb busting mission.

 

[Nimai_R]

Barbs in my Warlord game are just a nuisance >< all they do is burn my things when I forget about them, or feed the Baron. Thats another huge problem with easy barbs, I upgraded like literally 15 wolves into bloody and greater wolves feeding off of them. All barbs ever where to me was really feed actually o.o. I plan on playing noble next x3 maybe it'll make a difference

The worst barb that gave me a run for my money was Orthus, who spawned next to my capital and raided it in the next two turns until I got a swarm of 4 beastmen to take him down. Other then that it's easy.

Oh on another note, lizardmen only attacked cities and enver raided, there was a time they could of raided my cities with their fast movement and 4str was a little fierce back then. Never cared though cause I could leave em and they'd just sack the city and get brutally killed :S

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Barbs in my Warlord game are just a nuisance >< all they do is burn my things when I forget about them, or feed the Baron. Thats another huge problem with easy barbs, I upgraded like literally 15 wolves into bloody and greater wolves feeding off of them. All barbs ever where to me was really feed actually o.o. I plan on playing noble next x3 maybe it'll make a difference

The worst barb that gave me a run for my money was Orthus, who spawned next to my capital and raided it in the next two turns until I got a swarm of 4 beastmen to take him down. Other then that it's easy.

Oh on another note, lizardmen only attacked cities and enver raided, there was a time they could of raided my cities with their fast movement and 4str was a little fierce back then. Never cared though cause I could leave em and they'd just sack the city and get brutally killed :S

Well, you might have to expect them to be easy if you're playing on Warlord...

And lizardmen don't go for cities anymore. Their AI has been modified so that they're more like border guards- rather, they keep your units out of the wilderness. I like the change, personally.

 

[Nimai_R]

Yea I figured warlord would make my barbs easy =P But I've gotta take it one step at a time ; ; Can't jump from settler to noble xD Anyways. Hmmm border gaurds does sound pretty cool. Espicially since early exploring is huge, I got like 3 techs and a lot of gold, and even a settler I think from early exploring. Not to mention contact with civs and a map of my continent.

Though I was thrilled when a giant spider devoured my warrior for the first time. And then I was sad because I lost my explorer =P

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Just wait 'till you capture one with a hunter...

 

[Sarisin]

Well, you might have to expect them to be easy if you're playing on Warlord...

And lizardmen don't go for cities anymore. Their AI has been modified so that they're more like border guards- rather, they keep your units out of the wilderness. I like the change, personally.

I agree there seems to be quite a difference in the early to mid difficulty levels when you play a raging barb game. However, when you go to Monarch and up, it doesn't seem to be as big a difference.

I find your second paragraph interesting. I am still getting plenty of attacks on my cities from Lizardmen when they arrive on the scene. In my current game (Monarch), I had a stack of 7 land right next to my city and attack it the next turn.

In fact, I find it more difficult defending against the barb units who can pillage improvements rather than those that cannot like the Lizardmen. When the barb mounted units start appearing you really have to build up an outer ring of defense around your civ to protect your improvements or the mounted units with 3 movement points will scoot right in. They even use your own roads, I believe, and can quickly take out that great iron mine you have. The alternative is to put a fortified unit on the resource, but that will attract barbs big time.

I honestly have not seen much change in barb behavior version to version. The Lizardman Assassins, are the greatest challenge in mid-game, as they go for weak units in a stack, but the AI has not yet, thankfully, figured out how to coordinate their attack with other units.

 

[Jono]

I've found one of the issues with barbs is that they attack in waves rather than stacks. If barbs were to stratigize, they couldn't be stopped by 3-4 units sitting in a city on Deity.

 

[Nimai_R]

Hmm.. I didn't think there'd be a huge difference with one difficulty level. Guess I'm in for a treat when I go up to noble

As for evil barb raiders, one thing you can do is set up gaurdian vines if you have the mana for it, works kinda nicely. But yea pillagers were the hugest pain for me, espicially the 3 movement ones, in fact I nicknamed this one plot the blood crops because it was a corn farm that got destroyed and remade so many times with so many battles on it Good fun.

And I caught one with an assassin, but that's pretty late game so it went into a pen for silk. I didn't know they were invisible >< Damn spiders, ate like a good couple of explorers and workers.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I agree there seems to be quite a difference in the early to mid difficulty levels when you play a raging barb game. However, when you go to Monarch and up, it doesn't seem to be as big a difference.

I find your second paragraph interesting. I am still getting plenty of attacks on my cities from Lizardmen when they arrive on the scene. In my current game (Monarch), I had a stack of 7 land right next to my city and attack it the next turn.

In fact, I find it more difficult defending against the barb units who can pillage improvements rather than those that cannot like the Lizardmen. When the barb mounted units start appearing you really have to build up an outer ring of defense around your civ to protect your improvements or the mounted units with 3 movement points will scoot right in. They even use your own roads, I believe, and can quickly take out that great iron mine you have. The alternative is to put a fortified unit on the resource, but that will attract barbs big time.

I honestly have not seen much change in barb behavior version to version. The Lizardman Assassins, are the greatest challenge in mid-game, as they go for weak units in a stack, but the AI has not yet, thankfully, figured out how to coordinate their attack with other units.

Hm... perhaps the lizardmen that are spawned from ruins are given a scout AI, while the ones that are spawned normally once the AI has hunting can be given a military AI?

 

[Sureshot]

i think its just the medium difficulties on raging barbs on large marathon maps that barbs take out the AIs

on deity i don't find the AI suffering at all from the barbs, because they have so many units everywhere all the time

 

[Sarisin]

i think its just the medium difficulties on raging barbs on large marathon maps that barbs take out the AIs

on deity i don't find the AI suffering at all from the barbs, because they have so many units everywhere all the time

I've played a raging barb game on Deity and, again, did not find much of a difference in the number of barbs on the huge map I was playing. I think playing a regular game at Deity is insane and I get killed, but by employing the turtle-up defense, even at Deity, you can win by letting the AI civs get wiped out on their own.

I didn't count the barbs at Deity, but at Monarch there was about 100 on a huge map. Do you think there are more at higher levels?

 

[Sureshot]

i mean the AI's have tons of units, so theyre more capable of dealing with the barbs.

 

[Sarisin]

For as many raging barb games as I have played, I just got a first...

I am playing as Gyrrim Gyr on a huge Lakes map, Marathon setting, 10 other civs, at Emperor level. I have the raging barb/agressive AI combo setting.

Usually around yr. 120 or thereabouts you start to see the orc spearmen and goblin barbs appear on the scene. Occasionally, you see a Lizardman.

Not in this game.

In the yr 120 there were at least twice as many Lizardmen as goblins and spearmen. One stack of 7 showed up very quickly by my city.

In exploring before yr. 120 I destroyed several barrows, but did not see any ruins that produce Lizardmen - even so, this was way too many for ruins.

Until the yr. 650 I have been beseiged by beaucoup Lizardmen. Now the Orc Axemen and Orc Archers are showing up.

However, what caused the early appearance of so many Lizardmen?

Difficulty level? I have played up through Deity and never saw anything like this so early.

I had not built any Hunters and did not see any AI Hunters on the map.

It's a good thing Lizardmen cannot pillage, but combined with the Orc Spearmen it made defending city improvements a real challenge with only Warriors.

 

[QES]

I seem to recall championing an idea for barbarian heros a long while back.

A Few fun ones for recall (the names can be changed, but are included in their origional context for the understanding of flavor):

Spoiler :

The Phantom (of the opera) - Invisable Barbarian Hero
Enters game near the advent of theatres (Perhaps appears when X number have been built). Is invisable, and will enter cities with theatres in them "Haunting them". The theatre stops producing bonuses and produces bad negative effects, like +4 unhappiness, and maybe -10 gold. The way to get rid of him would be to use units that can see invisable units and "attack" him - at which point he is randomly transplanted somewhere else in the world - and then will huant the nearest available theatre, ad infanitum.

Cthlototh the Wicked: Level 3 Archmage Barbarian Unit.
Appears mid to late game. Has Mind III magic. Never suffers adverse affects of Dominate.
Any unit attacking and failing to kill Cthlototh becomes immediately dominated by Cthlototh.

Moire of the Black Vale: Immobile Unit placed in a Barbarian city.
Enters Mid Game
Moire Generate's random "Great Villians". THese are essentially the opposite of "great people" and each have an appropriate type. The Villan merchant, Villan Prophet, Villan Bard etc. Each has the opposite effect on a city than it normally would. Each "barbarian great person" would immediately seek to use their abilites where they could do the most damage. The Villan Merchant would go to the richest country possible, and steal funds (because their bonus would be a - in gold, in most likely the thousands). The Villanous bard would destroy culture, etc.

Tzuross the Lich King.
Appears Mid Game.
Level 3 Lich Summoner. Every Town, Village, Hamlet, or Cottage pillaged by the Lich King, or any unit summoned by the lich king produces a Skeliton in that square - which will also produce skelitons if they pillage. These Skelitons are not considered summons.

Children of the Evermere: Melee Barbarian Unit
Appears Randomly, cannot enter desert, tundra or Ice.
Every time a jungle is cut down there is an X&#37; chance that a Children of the Evermere unit is produced near by. Every time the children of the Evermere destroy a unit, or pillage a tile, it creates a jungle in that tile (destroying all improvements simultaniously)

The Others (Obvious ASoIaF rip off - BUT DAMN COOL!): Magic Barbarian Unit.
Spawned Only In ice and Tundra, appear mid/late game.
Immune To physical Strength and Cold, and are Nonliving. Vulnerable to fire.
0 (or 1) str + large cold damage bonus unit. Whenever an "other" kills a unit that unit is "captured" like an animal and gains the "undead" promotion, and a "vulnerability to fire" promotion. Every square entered by the Others turns one shade cooler - to plains, tundra, or Ice. These should be the baddest bunch in the game .

Just a plethora of ideas, as per Hurricane level III standards.
-Qes

 

[Chip56]

The others would only be fun if i get free obsidian daggers for my army and a wall out of ice

 

[QES]

The others would only be fun if i get free obsidian daggers for my army and a wall out of ice

Or if you had to find and aquire Obsidion weapons (like the mercanary upgrade) and the only way to do that would be through technolgoy expansion in the magic line.

I still think id fear seeing the Other's along my northern/southern boarder.

-Qes

 

[Sarisin]

For as many raging barb games as I have played, I just got a first...

I am playing as Gyrrim Gyr on a huge Lakes map, Marathon setting, 10 other civs, at Emperor level. I have the raging barb/agressive AI combo setting.

Usually around yr. 120 or thereabouts you start to see the orc spearmen and goblin barbs appear on the scene. Occasionally, you see a Lizardman.

Not in this game.

In the yr 120 there were at least twice as many Lizardmen as goblins and spearmen. One stack of 7 showed up very quickly by my city.

In exploring before yr. 120 I destroyed several barrows, but did not see any ruins that produce Lizardmen - even so, this was way too many for ruins.

Until the yr. 650 I have been beseiged by beaucoup Lizardmen. Now the Orc Axemen and Orc Archers are showing up.

However, what caused the early appearance of so many Lizardmen?

Difficulty level? I have played up through Deity and never saw anything like this so early.

I had not built any Hunters and did not see any AI Hunters on the map.

It's a good thing Lizardmen cannot pillage, but combined with the Orc Spearmen it made defending city improvements a real challenge with only Warriors.

Just to update this:

I completed the game with a Time Victory in the yr. 1801 (man, was my point score low!).

Two things:

1. I killed more than 1,500 Lizardmen. It is the first time I killed more Lizardmen that Orc Spearmen or Goblins. I am still wondering how I got so many Lizardmen so early.

2. It is the first time in a Marathon setting Time Victory I had not seen any Tier IV barb units - or even Orc Macemen. I guess it is because of the woeful state of the AI in producing Tier IV units. I built Heavy Crossbowmen, Inquisitors, and Paladins, but didn't see a single Tier IV unit from the barbs or any AI civ. There were 5 other civs left at the conclusion of the game played at Emperor Level.

 

[Sureshot]

the ruins produce tons of lizardmen, and they often transport around the world if theres a barb trait civ, since they cant enter barb trait borders and as such get pushed through the "find clear plot" function when the barb trait civs border expand, usually ending up on another continent.

 

[Sarisin]

the ruins produce tons of lizardmen, and they often transport around the world if theres a barb trait civ, since they cant enter barb trait borders and as such get pushed through the "find clear plot" function when the barb trait civs border expand, usually ending up on another continent.

I played on a Fantasy Realm huge lakes map - mostly land, one continent. For the first time since I can remember there were no ai civs with the BAR trait.

As I mentioned, during my exploration, I explored about 60% of the map. I destroyed/saw a number of barrows, but not a single ruin. I could have missed some in unexplored territory, but still...

I thought I read at some point barbs were going to be allowed to pass through the borders of the likes of Jonas and Hyborem?

 

[Sureshot]

if the barb trait civs declare war maybe heh