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The Bloodmoon Chronicles TC Fantasy Mod

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Creation & Customization' started by Nomad or What, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    As much as I am keen on using Subversion, I quite frankly know very little about how to use it apart from the basics. Eventually I will need to setup a version control repository (Sourceforge sounds as good as any), but for now I want to get the very basic core established. I could really use advice on the feasibility of core concepts at this point before I delve too deeply into mechanics that can't be done, such as the Bloodmoon phases, spell systems, crafting custom magic items, etc. Since I am not well versed in code I need to know what my limitations are early on. Seeing Faerun, I am fairly confident that just about anything is possible; however, how easily can it be done is the better question. Is there anything about the presented concepts in the OP that seem difficult or improbable to achieve?
     
  2. bane_

    bane_ Howardianism High-Priest

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    Well, I actually made the mock-up for the moon phases, but... it was ugly. Not because of design, but because of the lack of information of what should be input in the top panel.

    I'll show here what I've done with my own mod, which is what I offered Nomad, who told me to go forward with.

    This is what the Top panel will show you:
    Spoiler :


    The information it provides is the following:
    - What time of day is, and how is the weather (in BC's case, this would show the moon's phase);
    - How long does it take to change Day into Night, in turn terms (game speed affects this amount, naturally);
    - Spells out the icons (I play on high resolution, so most icons are very hard to distinguish, more people can have this same issue);
    - Explains how Day/Night affects the game;
    - How long weather takes to change. Although, in this case, weather is a bit unpredictable, so you only get an idea of how long does it takes. The first number (2) is fixed, while the second changes according to game speed;
    - Explains how Weather affects the game.


    More than just a tip, the player will get notifications on the changes of Day/Night cycle
    Spoiler :

    and weather cycle as well
    Spoiler :


    So information is abundant AND modular! :D :D
    All the infos update smoothly and immediately.


    With that explained, I feel obligated to say one thing more:

    Modding Civ5 truly is an exercise in creativity.
    Not because we can express ideas and turn them into reality, no, but because we have to dance to Fireaxis music, and this is not a company known for it's beautiful symphonies.
    We can't think "A" and apply it to code, sometimes, but think "A", then do "B" and a bit of "C", just so the PLAYER has the impression all we did was "A". Examples? Dummy buildings. I mean, that was a ridiculous shot of creativity! Someone thought: argh, I'll have to make this ugly stuff appear in the City screen in order to give the player the bonus I mentioned in the UA.
    Then, someone (or the same person, I dunno) actually got the building to NOT APPEAR in the city screen, and most players are OBLIVIOUS as to how the modder accomplished "A" in the first place. It wasn't by doing "A" (+1 Science to whatever), no it was by doing "B" (creating a building that gives Science to whatever) and a bit of "C" (hiding it in order to keep the illusion).

    So, keep on with your spaghetti monster, Fireaxis. Let's dance. ;)


    EDIT:
    I got too involved in talking about modding that I forgot an important aspect of the system I created: since you can intercept the changing of moon phases, there is no limit* to what you can do with them, as we can create LuaEvents to form the most variated effects on moons phasing in and out.

    * It's still a game, so, yeah, there are limits. :p
     
  3. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

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    Setting up a repository is, in my opinion, the foundation of a complex mod project.

    The ability for many people to work on the mod at their leisure and at the same time is fantastic. But there's also the save issue; I can already see that a lot of work has been done, but right now that work is on individual computers and could be lost at any time. A repository, if used diligently, will make sure that no work is ever lost, and that everybody working on the project always has the most up to date version of it.

    And finally, subversion allows you access to all the previous versions of the mod, which is invaluable for finding mistakes and reviving dead code.

    If you like, we can set up a time to meet on Steam chat and then I can walk you through setting up a subversion on SourceForge. IIRC that took me and Hangman about 30 minutes when we started working on the Andes mod.

    Seems like most could be done with lua (extremely inefficient) but a DLL would be great. I know nothing about C so it might be wise to use whowards' DLL, which is large and flexible and definitely can be used to implement new unit actions (i.e. "spellcasting"). And perhaps you might find somebody who can extend that DLL eventually to efficiently do game mechanics like "moon phases".

    I don't know anything about "Fall from Heaven II" which you referenced. However, your moon/mana system seems very complex, and therefore the AI will have no idea how to use or exploit it. Which means you'll have to develop scripts telling the AI which "mana nodes" they should seek out, how and when to develop them, etc. etc. Also, if there are spells, you'll need a script telling the AI how to use them.

    And then there's the issue of resources, which you seem to imply do not function like Civ resources. So you'll need a script that places these special "mana nodes" on the map (this could be complex if you want users to play on any map script), manages them in their developed/trade states and somehow tells the AI how best to exploit them, which means intercepting the settling and trade logic.

    Finally you imply that technological advancement will not be the core way in which the game progresses, which is a huge break with the existing AI. So, again, you'll need scripts (perhaps one for each particular civ) telling the AI how best to develop. So in all, it looks as if this will be a very, very complex project, as you desire to jettison many of the base game AI (settling, diplomacy, resourcing, teching)

    With all the above, it also looks like you're going to have a lot of new game data, so some save system will be necessary. TableSaverLoader looks to be the best and most stable option there.
     
  4. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    bane_ that looks awesome! Much more than I had anticipated, even :)

    I am looking forward to implementing this, and I would like to throw in some BMC data so that I can playtest it with normal civs. I just need to gather some content for it...
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  5. whoward69

    whoward69 DLL Minion

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  6. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    Thanks, these are invaluable! I have already found about 10 mods from your Pick'N'Mix Mods collection that I would love to incorporate in one fashion or another into this mod (with proper credit of course). I can't even imagine doing a TC mod without using at least some of your tools and mods!
     
  7. bane_

    bane_ Howardianism High-Priest

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    This is one of the chanting we do in our church.
    Come take a look some day, maybe in a Sunday. :)
     
  8. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

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    How are things going? I hope my last post was not too demoralizing...
     
  9. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    Not at all! In fact, very helpful. I will want to get this started before much more progress is made; I will certainly be needing expertise from much of the community to make this happen. My thought was to break it down into "chapters" where separate modules of code may or may not be employed. I know that Civitar had some ideas for the Ouroboros chapter and I was going to let him drive which mechanics we should use for that version. The "second" chapter I was hoping would be more of a community collaboration to give everyone an opportunity to apply their ideas to the overall concept, provided that it is within the basic theme. I also wanted to build chapters that were strictly scenarios, using mix-n-match mechanics as desired. So, overall it is a vast undertaking, one which I think would have been impossible until now.

    So basically, I was hoping to start with a rather straightforward foundation of code modules with an ability to add complexity later. That should suffice for Ouroboros, using 12 base civilizations while keeping the add-on code and .dll fairly simple. It will also help me remain focused on unit-building, which is my forte, since there is still a significant amount of fantasy units that need to be created.

    Unfortunately, I will be on travel for the next 8 weeks and have limited access to do much without a desktop. I will be able to do minor revisions to units using my laptop but can't focus on anything other than that. So, this might be a good opportunity for me to create the SourceForge Subversion and do some needed code tweaking to some of the existing units that have issues.

    Thanks for your offer of assistance, it is much appreciated! :)
     
  10. FramedArchitect

    FramedArchitect Reluctant Modder

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    Sure! But it looks as though you're not ready to implement the new features. Let me know when you need me!

    best,
    FA
     
  11. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    Sorry to all concerned, but with the coming of Civ VI in October I have decided to put this project on hold - at least until we find out how moddable Civ VI will be. Given the amount of time (years!) invested by a lot of brilliant people (not me) to finally make CiV (mostly) work, if the learning curve for Civ VI is less painful then I will be devoting my time to a full conversion mod in Civ VI for Bloodmoon instead.

    I'm taking a break for now (except to do some minor work assisting others), but I will see y'all around late October-ish. :)
     
  12. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    UPDATE: I will be assisting Civitar with the Warhammer Fantasy Battles mod until it is reasonably complete, after which the plan is to implement phase one of Bloodmoon Chronicles: Ouroboros in CiV. No plans at this time to create a mod for Civ VI, but I am not ruling it out as a possibility. For now, the focus is on continuing fantasy unit conversions for all fantasy-genre mods in CiV which will improve playability for all of them. When the time comes I will be setting up a Subversion repository for Bloodmoon in the hopes that the modding community will still share my enthusiasm to develop a fantasy TC mod on par with what Faerun presently is and what Warhammer hopefully soon shall be. Thank you all for your support!
     
  13. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    Great news :) Thank you. I am not going to abandon Civ 4-5-6 any time soon :D so all new mods especially fantasy themed are heartily welcomed
     
  14. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    UPDATE: With the Civ VI SDK out and by all appearances being terribly underwhelming, I have no desire to do any modding whatsoever with Civ VI in the near future - if ever. So, Bloodmoon will be moving forward in CiV with Ouroboros, the first chapter, which will be the basic mod covering a few of the core concepts in simple form. It will be a collaborative effort with Civitar and will consist of 12 civilizations (as Civitar mentions here); 5 mana types (Divine, Existential, Necromantic, Elemental, and Alteration); a unique but simplified "tech" tree that provides access to unique units, buildings, resources, and wonders; unique social policy & ideology (aka "Alignment") trees; new religions; basic spellcasting with 20-30 spells; Sorcerers, Summoners, and Channelers; and much more!

    Once Ouroboros is released I will be creating a repository for Bloodmoon to open it to general collaboration from the community. Chapter II: Mythos, will actually be a collection of individual scenarios, revealing the history of the core civilizations and introducing new concepts or adding complexity to existing ones (e.g., moon phases, more mana types, more spells, new resources, new civs, etc.). They will mostly be collaborative efforts from the community and will be released one at a time. This way, new code can be introduced and tested for playability without having to wait for all of the concepts to necessarily be completed.

    Finally, once the core concepts are complete, Chapter III: Apok√°lypsis will be released as the final Bloodmoon Chronicles TC mod, containing all of the concepts that were developed in the previous chapters. Of course, this release will still be able to be improved upon further, but the idea is that it will be in final form with all of the concepts fully integrated.

    As progress is made on the Chapter I: Ouroboros release I and/or Civitar will be posting them on the thread, so check back periodically. And, of course, be sure to periodically check out the progress on Civitar's Warhammer mod too!
     
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  15. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    Sad that civ 6 modding seems to be underwhelming, but nice to know both Warhammer and Bloodmood Chronicles are on their way to us players :)
     
  16. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    Preview of the proposed advancement tree (not filled in). Advancements will work similar to techs but will not use "science" per se; they are civ-dependent and can be bought with gold, culture, military xp, etc. Advancements allow new buildings, policies, unit promotions, etc. Civ flavors should drive the AI to focus on only 1-3 of the branches, since they become dramatically linear near the end. Note: Era names will change. EDIT 03/13/17: Advancement tree updated with Era names.

    Techtree3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  17. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    No news for long time :( nor in warhammer thread. Guess we`ll stick to playing fall from heaven modmods until 2020 :D
     
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  18. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    2020 is a realistic goal for me :lol:

    A lot has happened in the last year - I'm in a different country now and I am still getting settled in, but I hope to be back on the scene soon. I plan to stick to CiV for the most part; I may do a couple of CiV to Civ VI model conversions just to get the concept down so that my completed models can be imported to Civ VI more easily, but I am simply unimpressed with Civ VI and in particular with the AI (which is horrible!). I think that Bloodmoon is better suited to CiV and I will continue progress at least with Ouroboros (12 civs, basic tech tree and policies, spells and mana, unique buildings, etc.).

    I am not certain how much Civitar will be working with Warhammer so I will proceed forward with setting up the SVN repository for Bloodmon and then trade unit building requests with the community to develop the core code. No timeline as of yet but I am hoping within a couple of months to have it outlined in clear concept. I also need to hone my unit making skills again, since I am quite rusty after almost a year....
     
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  19. Alexej

    Alexej Prince

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    It is like bodybuilding :) in few weeks you are allmost back in shape. Good to know you did not gave up ;)
     
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  20. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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