The Byzantine Empire

[anandus]

Now we need to find out who will win the duel of the century: Catherine vs Theodora, who is deadliest?

Third Rome vs Second Rome

 

[Babri]

So on duel map against Celts, Byzantine UA would be useless ? (as Celts would almost always found religion before Byzantines)

 

[Uberfrog]

So on duel map against Celts, Byzantine UA would be useless ? (as Celts would almost always found religion before Byzantines)

Well, yes, and I'm sure we can all play "how can we conspire the game settings to ruin a civ's UA?" It doesn't make an ability unbalanced.

 

[Heinage]

Well, yes, and I'm sure we can all play "how can we conspire the game settings to ruin a civ's UA?" It doesn't make an ability unbalanced.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

Japan vs. Sweden on duel map without city-states and permanent war

EDIT: Something on topic...my guess is that the cataphract will be a stronger knight that also receives defensive bonuses.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: This thread is about the inclusion of the Byzantine Empire as a civ in Civ5 and what its game characteristics may be. Please keep the thread on topic.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Cicero63]

I read something that implied that the Cataphract would be a horseman replacement, which is some ways makes sense since there is a million knight replacements. Either way I am sure it will be very powerful

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

It wouldn't make sense as a Horseman replacement, though.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Now we need to find out who will win the duel of the century: Catherine vs Theodora, who is deadliest?

It's good to know where they got Theodora's hair from in her leader screen. This actually make sense because, as cool as the red hair might be, it's a good idea to use mosaics from the time she actually lived. Her clothes and the background is from "Empress Theodora at the Colosseum" by Jean-Joseph Benjamin-Constant, which would have been painted in the 19th Century, but they at least tried to make her hair authentic to the time

 

[Dragonflow]

If the Cataphract replaces the Horseman it would need to be as strong as a Knight and make it possible for Byzantium to bypass Knight completely, like Carthage bypassed Pikemen in Civ3.

 

[prince_caspian]

If cataphract is a horseman replacement it definitely can't be as strong as a knight. Why should Byzantine have this OP privilege when other civs make do with something in between, eg. Greece CC? There must be something that makes it stand out, maybe a bonus vs infantry, but a horseman UU same as a knight? You gotta be kidding.

 

[Liex]

Well, anyway, I figured out that The Bonus belief is actually going to be ANY belief, including Pantheon, from Arioch's known belief list, there are infact 23 Pantheon Beliefs. 22 for all the civs in a single game (max being 22), and a 23rd for Byzantines.

There also needs to be,
12 founder beliefs
23 follower beliefs
12 enhancer beliefs.

Duplicate civs are allowed in Civ5, but I don't know how many. In the most extreme situation, is it possible for all 22 players to use Byzantines?

Of course, even if this is possible, the game design doesn't have to account for edge cases such as multiple Byzantine civs in a 22-player game.

I like to think they can pick a belief that was already chosen. That would both solve the issue you guys stated and improve the UA a bit - which is nice, since it's so risky.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Why would anyone think it replaces something other than a Knight?

If people think it's because there's a lot of Knight replacements, there's also three Horse replacements (Companion, African Forest Elephant, and Horse Archer).

 

[MadDjinn]

If cataphract is a horseman replacement it definitely can't be as strong as a knight. Why should Byzantine have this OP privilege when other civs make do with something in between, eg. Greece CC? There must be something that makes it stand out, maybe a bonus vs infantry, but a horseman UU same as a knight? You gotta be kidding.

I'd agree. It wouldn't 'as strong as', but it could be close. Like the Greek Hoplites in vanilla (9 CS vs. a Pikemans 10 CS).

 

[nokmirt]

Why would anyone think it replaces something other than a Knight?

If people think it's because there's a lot of Knight replacements, there's also three Horse replacements (Companion, African Forest Elephant, and Horse Archer).

They did have cataphracts in earlier times, several kingdoms used them. However, the Byzantine empire is the most well known for them. So, they should replace the knight. It just would feel funny to me if they replaced the horseman. If they do that, I will fix it via xml.

 

[elprofesor]

Why would anyone think it replaces something other than a Knight?

If people think it's because there's a lot of Knight replacements, there's also three Horse replacements (Companion, African Forest Elephant, and Horse Archer).

Horse archer will probably be a chariot archer replacement, given its stats.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Not necessarily. Yes it has a (ranged) strength of 8 compared to 12, but it's typical to give the ranged version of a unit reduced strength compared to the main unit. The Keshik is 13 compared to 18 right now. My suspicion is the Horse Archer will have the ability to move after firing, which will be its strength, not the combat strength. If it doesn't have this, it'll be weak no matter what. If it's just strength 6, ranged strength 8, it's basically the same as the Chariot (which is now 5 and 8).

 

[elprofesor]

Of course, but we don't know the special promotions of the horse archer yet. It will probably have the ability to move after attacking, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will be a horsemen replacement. It could be a chariot archer replacement with some minor extra strength, the ability to move after attacking, and some other special promotion.

Otherwise, the Hun chariot archer would be kinda redundant, don't you think? Plus, the only ranged unique units that are replacements for melee units are the camel archer and the keshik, and they both replace a melee unit because there are only two other ranged land units in the medieval era, and it would be extremely weird for them to replace crossbowmen or trebuchets

 

[Louis XXIV]

But it's also weird for a late classical civilization to have two ancient era units and no classical era units.

 

[elprofesor]

That I can't argue against.

 

[Alexastor]

Why would anyone think it replaces something other than a Knight?

If people think it's because there's a lot of Knight replacements, there's also three Horse replacements (Companion, African Forest Elephant, and Horse Archer).

It would especially akward as the Greeks already have the Companion on that spot.