The Carthage Thread

[Patine]

Putting aside any issue one may have with complexion (no, Hannibal was not black, in case any one here needed to be told), Washington is about twenty five years too old even for Hannibal at the *end* of the Second Punic War - and about forty years older than the Hannibal who crossed the Alps.

Although not I'm not familair with very many (except Gal Gadot, who is unmistakably female), they should get an Israeli actor, for the similar demographic look and accept, in my opinion.

 

[Patine]

They're all north African. North African were white like Europeans.

No, they're of the tan-skinned, dark-brown-haired, dark-eyed racial make-up that Rameses was that Henri could not accept existed.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Putting aside any issue one may have with complexion (no, Hannibal was not black, in case any one here needed to be told), Washington is about twenty five years too old even for Hannibal at the *end* of the Second Punic War - and about forty years older than the Hannibal who crossed the Alps.

Ironically it was a project that he was interested in over 20 years ago but decided against it because it would take away time with his family, according to the article.

 

[pokiehl]

Ironically it was a project that he was interested in over 20 years ago but decided against it because it would take away time with his family, according to the article.

Robert DeNiro successfully played a character in a wide range of ages in The Irishman and he was nearly 80. I don’t think Denzel playing Hannibal at that age will be a big issue at all.

 

[reddishrecue]

No, they're of the tan-skinned, dark-brown-haired, dark-eyed racial make-up that Rameses was that Henri could not accept existed.

North African descent are also considered white. Romans conquered that too.

 

[Evie]

Okay, even if "Romans conquered that" made a region's inhabitants white (which is so wrong to begin wtih) was true...

How would that be relevant to Hannibal, who was (obviously) born long before any Roman conquest, since he fought against the Romans during the conquest?

Please stop. Seriously.

 

[reddishrecue]

Okay, even if "Romans conquered that" made a region's inhabitants white (which is so wrong to begin wtih) was true...

How would that be relevant to Hannibal, who was (obviously) born long before any Roman conquest, since he fought against the Romans during the conquest?

Please stop. Seriously.

Facts are relevant to anything.

 

[Evie]

Yes, like the fact Hannibal was born 45 years before the Roman even conquered any part of North Africa.

So even if you were right about the Romans making places they conquered "white", they weren'T freaking time travelers. They wouldn't have *retroactively* changed the ethnic makeup of the places they conquered, for crying out loud!

 

[reddishrecue]

Yes, like the fact Hannibal was born 45 years before the Roman even conquered any part of North Africa.

So even if you were right about the Romans making places they conquered "white", they weren'T freaking time travelers. They wouldn't have *retroactively* changed the ethnic makeup of the places they conquered, for crying out loud!

That's true.. I guess ethnic backgrounds don't mix with a game because that's all it is, a game.

 

[BuchiTaton]

"White" and "Black", can not people stop these segrationist color obsessed anachornistic labeling?

The only cultures that even care about skin color are the ones that are in the opposite poles, the most dark and light colored and mostly for antagonization agendas. For most of the cultures color was not even relevant and was counter intuitive to care about it since they were in a middle point to foreigns. All Romans, Greeks, Egyptians and Persians were in this scenario were "barbarians" of both lighter and darker skins were living around them.

The whole world is full of populations in a multi directional gradient of phenotypic characteristics, the supposed discrete groupings are subjetive polarizations that resort into ignoring the transitional populations.

 

[Patine]

North African descent are also considered white. Romans conquered that too.

Whose statement and source is this from, other than fans of Rome. There is not this not remotely near the consensus you claim, and speak of as though a settled absolute. in fact, this smacks of that racist 19th Century German naturalist's 3-race-theory that Henri cherishes, but that's long debunked.

 

[Patine]

"White" and "Black", can not people stop these segrationist color obsessed anachornistic labeling?

The only cultures that even care about skin color are the ones that are in the opposite poles, the most dark and light colored and mostly for antagonization agendas. For most of the cultures color was not even relevant and was counter intuitive to care about it since they were in a middle point to foreigns. All Romans, Greeks, Egyptians and Persians were in this scenario were "barbarians" of both lighter and darker skins were living around them.

The whole world is full of populations in a multi directional gradient of phenotypic characteristics, the supposed discrete groupings are subjetive polarizations that resort into ignoring the transitional populations.

No, it can't stop them, I agree. But, the lack of such firm barriers can't stop movie-goers and criitics can showing opposiiton, either. It's a two-way street. And, movies and TV series only became successful by getting fans and viewers, so...

 

[reddishrecue]

Whose statement and source is this from, other than fans of Rome. There is not this not remotely near the consensus you claim, and speak of as though a settled absolute. in fact, this smacks of that racist 19th Century German naturalist's 3-race-theory that Henri cherishes, but that's long debunked.

I'm not a Roman fan. These are just facts that were put where they seem they would fit but it is not like that.

 

[Patine]

I'm not a Roman fan. These are just facts that were put where they seem they would fit but it is not like that.

As I said, they're not FACTS - but a subjective viewpoint, seemingly tied to SOMEONE'S socio-political agenda.

 

[pokiehl]

It’s certainly ironic that those complaining about the prospect of yet another race discussion are indeed the same ones who—you guessed it—started and prolonged yet another race discussion.

It’s just a movie.

 

[reddishrecue]

As I said, they're not FACTS - but a subjective viewpoint, seemingly tied to SOMEONE'S socio-political agenda.

Ok, maybe you're right. Who knows whether they were white or not.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm not a Roman fan. These are just facts that were put where they seem they would fit but it is not like that.

The idea behind who was "white" has changed throughout history. In the 1800s in America, the Irish weren't even considered white.
Egyptians did refer to Libyans as "fair skinned" but that doesn't necessarily translate to today's standard definition that "white" equals most people of European ancestry. And well after Rome the Arabs came to North Africa, which would make them less "white" they were in antiquity.

 

[reddishrecue]

The idea behind who was "white" has changed throughout history. In the 1800s in America, the Irish weren't even considered white.
Egyptians did refer to Libyans as "fair skinned" but that doesn't necessarily translate to today's standard definition that "white" equals most people of European ancestry. And well after Rome the Arabs came to North Africa, which would make them less "white" they were in antiquity.

Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean look at the Moors who conquered Europe back in the 1600s. Maybe even the Europeans aren't that white anymore. Who knows?

 

[Patine]

It’s certainly ironic that those complaining about the prospect of yet another race discussion are indeed the same ones who—you guessed it—started and prolonged yet another race discussion.

It’s just a movie.

If you read, In my orginal post, I didn't give my personal opinion on the matter, but a concern about the response of a viewer base (which makes or breaks a movie, regardless of modern, "rights," of casting), given what happened to the Netflix Cleopatra series. But, I was declared to be making an obtuse, racially-charged viiew of my own, which is not at all what I said. I've dealt with this disingenuous way of having my posts misinterpreted many times before, and then attacked on it, quite a few times, including in the OT forum here many times in the past, and the way I worded it makes no excuses. So, yes, I hold you responsible for trying to start an issue, which is not the first attempt in the last few days. Perhaps you may want to get away from from your computer for a bit.

 

[Patine]

Ok, maybe you're right. Who knows whether they were white or not.

Or, maybe, as I said, "White," "Black," and, "Yelllow," and that being it, is a very outmoded and obsoolete - and racsit system - despite Henri's championing of it.