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The Celts

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Gazebo, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The Celts need a new UA. Right now, I'm leaning towards this:

     
    Gothic_Empire likes this.
  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Kinda hard to judge this without you saying what the pantheons does, or at least giving some examples.


    However I'm not sure I'm such a fan of this actually. Maybe if you balance the pantheon around the celts starting with it. But that would be overlapping with India.
     
  3. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Well, that's the fun part. I was thinking that we could give the Celts a choice of 8-10 beliefs for Pantheons, each of which reflects a separate Celtic/Druidic god. The Pantheons would be buffed/combined versions of existing Pantheons. This would allow the Celts to 'craft their own UA' based on starting location.

    G
     
  4. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    That's pretty much what I thought, again it would feel way more relevant if you didn't need to reach 30 faith to get it.
     
  5. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    I think it would be very interesting to have a Civ with unique or stronger Beliefs (or Policy) effects.
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I agree. If you guys want to help me brainstorm 10 pantheon names (i.e. Celtic Gods) and the belief bonuses, that'd be awesome. Use the existing pantheons as your base (i.e. use existing Pantheon bonuses - don't get too creative).
     
  7. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Do you want to use all the improvement-buffs, or none of them? Imho leaving a few of them out is silly.
     
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Yeah, let's leave them out.

    G
     
  9. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'd say lets run with some fun ones in that case.
    Ancestor Worship
    Cult of Nature
    Dance of the Aurora
    Desert Folklore
    Fertility Rites
    God of War
    Goddess of Festivals
    Goddess of Love
    Monument to the Gods
    Sacred Path
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    List looks good. We can pull from a few other beliefs as well if we so desire. For now, let's tie these to Celtic gods and buff them.
     
  11. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Won't be of any use with Celtic gods I'm afraid, I find them extremely boring :D
    Can give you some yields-suggestions if you want however.
     
  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Alright, I'll deal with the mythology. You give me yields. :)

    G
     
  13. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    No I'll give you suggestions, I wouldn't be arrogant enough to think you wouldn't be able to improve upon them.
     
  14. void_genesis

    void_genesis Prince

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    Three alternative thoughts:
    - Celts select two simultaneous pantheons
    and/or
    - Each celtic city picks a different pantheon when founded/captured
    and/or
    -Pantheon effects are not removed by foreign religions taking over the city
     
  15. void_genesis

    void_genesis Prince

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    Three alternative thoughts:
    - Celts select two simultaneous pantheons
    and/or
    - Each celtic city picks a different pantheon when founded/captured
    and/or
    -Pantheon effects are not removed by foreign religions taking over the city
     
  16. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Probably complicated, and really strong.

    Sounds like a nightmare to program.

    Doesn't actually sound fun. And not really thematic, and pretty useless as well.
     
  17. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I have no idea how strong you want the pantheons being, but I'm guessing somewhere around 50% more power or double the power?

    Hard to know what to do with, just increasing the culture isn't a good idea because it will snowball heavily. Maybe something like:

    (50%) - +3 culture +2 food in capital, +1 Faith/3 citizens.
    (100%) - +3 culture in capital +1 culture in other cities, +1 Faith/2 citizens.

    I honestly feel like this pantheon needs a rework in general, I find the yields on mountains completely stupid and creates way too powerful combinations with Machu Picchu and an observatory, for that reason I'm not even going to include it here.
    I also find this pantheon in general pretty hard to increase upon, as natural wonders are way rare and you already get a 50% bonus from them. If I had to do something I would perhaps do it like this.

    (50%) - +2 culture/faith/food from natural wonders
    (100%) - +2 culture/faith/food/production from natural wonders.

    However, these are both really a lot worse than the other options as imho, the base pantheon isn't very strong.

    I'll place this one on ice for now.

    Yes I know it only works on actual resources, but that takes too long to write.
    Anyways there are a lot of creative ways to handle this one (and the desert one).
    You could either just buff the existing numbers. add something to it, or completely change it to something with a similar effect.
    All these examples are aimed at Dance of the Aurora, but they pretty much applies to desert folklore aswell.

    Some examples:
    (50%) - +1 Production/Faith/Culture from improved tundra-tiles. +1 food on flat (non-hill) tundra tiles without resources on them.
    Turning tundra-tiles into hard-to-improve grassland-tiles.
    (50?%) - +1 Food/Production/Faith/Culture/Gold from improved tundra-tiles.
    Just pumping up the numbers, added the yields from the desert folklore to it.
    (100%) - +1 Food/Faith on all tundra-tiles.
    Pretty much a pimped up version of the old dance of the aurora, could create an interesting situation where the Celts can adapt to their surroundings and turn into a pseudo Arabia/<Funak's Russia>.
    (100%) - +2 Production/Faith/Culture from improved tundra-tiles.


    Hard one again, just pumping up the numbers could be a solution, but ti's rather boring. One could combine it with Goddess of Love I guess. But that doesn't really sound very fun either.

    (50%) - +2 Food/Faith +15% Growth from shrines.
    (100%) - +2 Food/Faith +25% Growth from shrines.

    Hard to do anything with this other than just increasing the numbers.

    One could also combine it with another existing pantheon, maybe Faith Healers or Goddess of Protection?


    (50%) - +3 Culture/Faith from luxuries
    (100%) - +4 Culture/Faith from luxuries

    There is some options here as well. Bumping up the numbers, adding other yields to it, making cities grow faster somehow or adding some similar effect from another pantheon to it, maybe Religious Settlements.


    (50%) - +2 Faith +2 Culture from World wonders, 15% bonus while building wonders.
    (100%) - +4 Faith +3 Culture from World Wonders, 15% bonus while building wonders.

    I actually find this pantheon currently extremely under-powered with the changes to improvements and forest/jungle. Maybe the base pantheons should be reworked somehow.

    (?%) - +1 Faith from jungles, +1 Culture from forests.
     
  18. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    Maybe taking Void Genesis' suggestion of mixing 2 Pantheons is good into one.
    Or
    Make it 100% more Power as suggested bu Funak, but maybe have it double with some other requirement and not right away.


    Ancestor Worship - +3 culture in capital +1 faith/4 citizens

    Mix with Sun God: +1 Food and +1 Faith on Farms, +2 Faith from Palace

    Or

    Cult of Nature - +2 culture/faith from natural wonders and mountains


    Just make it stronger on all Yields for Natural Wonders,for that Lucky Spanish Natural Wonder start :king:


    Fertility Rites: +2 Faith from Granaries, 10% faster Growth Rate

    Mix with Goddess of Love: +5 Faith, +3 Golden Age Points every time a Citizen is born

    Or

     
  19. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    I'm not suggesting anything.


    G didn't want any of the resource-boosting ones, and I personally find that one extremely boring in the first place, it is way too snowbally, guaranteed faith and a bunch of food if you're lucky.
     
  20. hewkii9

    hewkii9 Chieftain

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    Here's an alternative tack for unique pantheons, perhaps they could correspond to play-styles throughout the game. Here are my ideas for some play-style-themed pantheons, each loosely based on a Policy Tree;

    "Tradition" +3 Happiness in Capital, and +1 Faith for every known Civ with a Pantheon. Cities provide +30% Ranged Combat Strength.

    "Liberty" +1 Faith, +2 Science, +2 Food in cities with a City Connection.

    "Might" +15 HP healed per turn in friendly territory, +2 Faith and +3 Culture from each heal that happens this way.

    "Piety" +1 Faith, Culture, Gold, Production, Food, and Science for every 6 followers.

    "Patronage" +2 Faith and +3 Science for every CS Friendship, and +1 Faith for every known NW.

    "Aesthetics" +1 Faith from every WW, 10% to WW construction.

    "Industry" +4 Faith, +4 Gold, +3 GAP when a citizen is born.

    "Imperialism" 5 Faith from border growth, 10% faster border growth. +5% Combat Strength in owned territory.

    "Rationalism" +1 Faith per 9 Science generated empire-wide, +2 Science and +2 Production in capital.
     

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