The Civ engine bothers me.

[r_rolo1]

BTW does civ IV uses all four cores for calcs ? There weren't exactly a lot of quad cores in 2003 and I doubt that the game it is optimized for using them. If the cals are concentrated on one or two cores......

 

[Genv [FP]]

I think the only game that uses quad cores right now is Crysis, and IT uses only 1 core and rarely a second core.


@ Everyone regarding my FPS statement - I know that civ does calculations, but FPS shooters do calculations when you're doing, say, blowing 10 explosive barrels in a row.

@ T.A Jones; ah, Ok

 

[Genv [FP]]

Genv [FP],

Have you tried saving your game, closing down the program (exiting to desktop) then reloading your save?

I say this because I've notice the same problem in my machine, however when I stop and pick up the game later on everything moves much quicker. I haven't done any official testing, but it sure feels like CivIV has a memory leak.

I rarely finish a game in one sitting, but I've never noticed that problem.

Settings houldnt really change the waiting time between turns, settings usually deal with graphics and they need power from the videocard, the waiting time will be reduced with a better cpu and most likely memory.

And crysis also requires a good cpu so its really not his hardwares fault. The cpu just needs some time to think (you wonder why since half a chicken could do better).

The graphics engine isnt that bad on the other hand, only few computers are completely unable to play civ on the lowest settings. And the engine could have been used for way better graphics (oblivion is using the same graphics engine, believe it or not).

But oblivion has crummy graphics..

 

[King Flevance]

Hehe, so does Civ 4. Have a peek at Colonization screenshots and you begin to see the potential of this engine. They cant add in a new engine without entirely remaking the game. The engine is the foundation for the game. So if you want a new engine, you are actually asking for Civ 5. Its the only way to fulfill that request reasonably.

The reason why HL can run so smooth is because of its age. Civ 4 pretty much requires 1 full core an 1-1.5G RAM if you play large maps. HL does not require this, it can just use it. Both are probably capped in the same way. I remember something being said about windows capping this a while back. You using Vista or XP out of curiousity? I don't know if either one would help over the other but I am just curious for now. No good replies ready either way you answer.

 

[Genv [FP]]

Vista 64 bit. Works fine.


Most people jump into vista expecting their XP applications to work.

 

[T.A JONES]

BTW does civ IV uses all four cores for calcs ? There weren't exactly a lot of quad cores in 2003 and I doubt that the game it is optimized for using them. If the cals are concentrated on one or two cores......

Nope it uses one core. SO.... Find a CPU thats had its one core refined to hell and try that ...wait, not buy itself. Civ4's still tough task to handle with the deafult eqpt it comes with (mobo v-card)
"Cedarmill" codename for the project that desiged the last ever Mono, used all they had learned from fighting a war with amd to enhance games o the mono platform. New developments before dual came were mostly based on bringig overclocking to new limits in safty and performance by co operatin wit mobo makers

Intel by then had started to encourage overclockin and pushed the mobo makers to cater to their new line of faster safer CPU's The cedar was the 1st and last mono CPU to benifit from this co-operation
They can utilize extra power on anything made today. SO don't be fooled by a copy paste attack thats brings a benchmark with Cedar weak 800mhz bus that came packaged with the cedar in its time.
Todays cedar owners drive a whole new rig . A rig capable of steamrollin over turn times while quads still get stuck in the mud

Its a sad more didn't get a chance to buy one of these pinnicles in mono perfection gaming, as those lucky enough now say nothn but civ4 runs like a breez(any size)
You can blame the 'Cedar what..who? ?' attitude on Intel's rush to restart the 'upgrade-every-6 month' practice with dualcore as for-runner
The plan to make a commercial viable 10ghz processor went bust.
Monocore had finished its run with Cedarmill as its Trophy shining bright after years of competition and further refinment with mobo compatabilty.
My point: The rush to cover it up for bigger stakes in the muti core battle brought confused consumrs clamouring for less ghz more cores. The cedar plugged in to weak mobos, when time to get reviews from the Intel sponsered big bloggers came down,, resulted in the Cedar fast becoming the RAREST P4 in sales by an unbelievable margin.! ANd never has anyone looked back. Till now.

The Cedar got lost in the rush but once mobo manufaturers lifted the cap and opened potential for a few once bottlenecked mono CPU' to thrive on new models, more online buyer began to fill orders for these keys to mono game performance. THe Cedsr is in huge online demand. Douber go try biddin on the last day to see the realty for yourslef.

ANyway Once you have the most refined monocore riding the lighting of todays fastest mobos's and graphics cards, you have a system thats ready to beat a quadcore system handa down.
THe quadore is a good bet for civ5 supremacy. here, I hop that helps to not hurt so many dual/quad owner's feelings : )

Pssst the answers you seek are very highly controversial .Nobody likes to hear the rig they paid out the ear for runs slower then a older, 1/3 the cost civ4 playing machine. It true IM afraid and fact is present to back this up

It goes back to the programmers and how they designed civ4 to utlize netburst. Codename Cedarmill as peak evo in this regard This was the very last of the monocore CPU's ever made. The know how poured n this CPU model is most refined for mono game design .Nothing beat it on the civ front

This discovery came when the greatest mono cpu of all time was bolstered with quadcore suited motherboards.
Everyone knows motherboard makes the speed of specs like L2 and ram flow towards the tasks faster (1066mhz used on cedar by player aware of its dominacne for mono utilized games) or slower, ( 800mhz, cedar's deafult...a disasterous choice for bottlenecking P4's raw speed ) depending on what mhz speed

Games desiged for monocore are shown too play best on cedarmill the fastest. Its amazing artical of exception to the truth , that being core 2 is the best CPU to date for PC games.

Couple the Cedar very latest v-cards the mobo now can operate and you have he best computer made for any civ game so far . Your qaud has you in good shape to play civ5.
You will not every see a complaint with a cedarmill user about lag in turns however, you are about the 400th Core2 slow game complaint on this forum

L2 is the Cpu memory that calculates the turns in CIv4 before ram is called in . The more you have the longer your turn avoids netburst ineffiecient pipeline struture delys when virtual memeory is called up

Heres the evo of P4 .
Northwood 130nm) L2 cahe 512mb...crap yet thnks to dell most common model
Prescott (90nm) L2 cahe 512mb
Prescott 2M (90nm) L2 cache 2 MiB
Cedar Mill (65nm) L2 cache 2Mb

The straight shrink of the 600-series core to 65 nm gave Cedar Mill a lower heat output than Prescott. Now overclockers ran a 4.6 ghz nice and easy. The "40% less effiecnt then core2" claim by intel was proven as a lie becaue todays cedar owner uses the Core2 motherboard
SO a core 2 running at 2.6ghz is no eqaul to a cedar running at 3.6ghz when the cedar has a mobo deliver L2 and ram to the CPu's task at new superior levels then what was shipped before (800mhz junk!)
Back when Intel touted new dualcore they forget to say " a cedar with a better mobo/ v-card was truly the newt big advanace "'opps! and btw, monocore game optimization is here to stay for a while."

 

[Venger]

Someone is a little too insecure about their Pentium 4 sticker. A Core 2 processor absolutely crushes the P4 - there is simply no benchmark material that will back up your fantastic claims. As to the Cedar Mill processor, it benches identically to the Prescott on everything but thermal load. It's a die shrink and minor production update, it's no faster than it's parent design.

Find a review, anywhere, that shows a Cedar Mill processor besting a remotely equivalent Core 2.

 

[Kesshi]

I rarely finish a game in one sitting, but I've never noticed that problem.

Genv [FP],

I confrimed it with my last game. CivIV DOES have a horrible memory leak. The game was using 500m ram and 500m of virtual memory at load. If I kept it on long enough it would be using 1.5g of ram and 1.5g of virtual memory! If I were to save and reload, back to 500m/500m and turn by turn it'd slowly creep back up.

Oh well, at least I know how to solve the problem of a long wait between turns.

 

[Willem]

@ Everyone regarding my FPS statement - I know that civ does calculations, but FPS shooters do calculations when you're doing, say, blowing 10 explosive barrels in a row.

It's not even remotely the same thing. In Civ each unit on the map has to have it's path calculated, the cultural boundaries have to be determined, trade relations are taken into consideration as well as the diplomatic standings between the various civs. There's also the Worker routines and the city governor calculations, and the list goes on. The calculations required for blowing up a bunch of barrels is squat compared to what Civ needs to keep track of. Comparing a a CPU intensive game like Civ to one that's almost completely GPU based lie Crysis is totally useless, it's like comparing apples to bananas. The only thing they have in common is that they're both fruits.

 

[Inky]

The memory hit is a problem with game speed on huge maps. I think there is some CPU hit from higher graphic settings. The game doesn't actually look all that much better on high settings than low, and if it makes it more playable, which matters more, speed or looks?

People with low-end systems don't have to worry about this so much, but high end tempts you to crank up everything.

 

[T.A JONES]

Someone is a little too insecure about their Pentium 4 sticker. A Core 2 processor absolutely crushes the P4 -

in what dept? word processing? googling? .....Civ4? No.

Find a review, anywhere, that shows a Cedar Mill processor besting a remotely equivalent Core 2.

NO. How bout you find one that disproves the practiced 'theory' using related Civ information, not general charts or guidlines that bypass game desinger variables for generic stipulations on what should happen?

Ive got Civ4/Civ3 specific reports of Core2 taking a core beating by the 100's, while civ4 is only excelling in measure with Cedar reports on rare ones that come in. Hey what reason to phone in a compliment to the 'tech forum' instead of complaint right? Yet still I can link you directly sir )

Hey don't feel bad you have nothing!. Come back with benchmark that uses civ4, heck civ3 to bolster your "P4' tyraid.
Surly you'll find comparison between the 2 radically different designed CPU's, which will show Core2 superiority using this monocore, specificly p4"Prescott time frame, designed game as a bench variable.
After all, Its a PC classic. Millions would love to see proven what you say is Law. That is, the touting that "All game old benifit from the newest CPU's all the time" Dosn't look to be true, least no good backing on the '4front'. And with so many game benches online, I bet You'd think you'd be back with one report atleast......... *Nope. won't see him for a while* lol.

Hmm mybe take my word the lack of your proof says more towards what Ive claimed all along. Article exception to the truth prevails in this case. Were did I say your precious Core2 was worse tech patent then pent4 overall.? Blame the game designr for catering to inferior hardware. Now who's the one jumping the gun?. Im taking the time to rationilize by consider the outcomes.

As to the Cedar Mill processor, it benches identically to the Prescott on everything but thermal load. It's a die shrink and minor production update, it's no faster than it's parent design.

Wow did you research my post for this.? . Looks that way but What did you contribute? You say there is another model that is lesser cedar called Prescott.?Yep uh huh.. So hows this back your point? What it tells us is nothing! . Cedar/pressy is the better model for using todays more powerful mobos Yet only one, cedar, is less heating constraining(thermal load) Thanks for backing that up. I had already explain this tho:

The straight shrink of the 600-series core to 65 nm gave Cedar Mill a lower heat output than Prescott. Now overclockers ran a 4.6 ghz nice and easy. The "40% less effiecient then core2" claim by intel was proven as a lie because todays cedar owner uses the Core2 motherboard (....to further push this die) [insert]
SO a core 2 running at 2.6ghz is no eqaul to a cedar running at 3.6ghz when the cedar has a mobo deliver L2 and ram to the CPu's task at new superior levels then what was shipped before (800mhz junk!)

Again more reminder your Pressy/Cedar 'being the same' are just some gross ass exadurations when eqpt on the 'right' frame..newb! lol

 

[Venger]

What are you, 12?

Prescott and Cedar Mill are the SAME CORE ARCHITECTURE you luddite halfwit. CM is a straight process die shrink, they bench IDENTICALLY.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a-sneak-peak-intel,1141.html

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Pentium_4/TYPE-Desktop Pentium 4 Cedar Mill.html

That's like two of 100 links I can give you to let to hopefully break through to you that Prescott and Cedar Mill PERFORM IDENTICALLY. I bet you think your new sneakers help you run faster too... clown.

Your insecurity over your old technology P4 is pretty humorous. Please stop arguing with people who clearly have more information and can back it up with facts, not ranting and raving like a 7 year old on a sugar high.

 

[UnnamedPlayer]

crysis is very cpu demanding

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Genv [FP],

I confrimed it with my last game. CivIV DOES have a horrible memory leak. The game was using 500m ram and 500m of virtual memory at load. If I kept it on long enough it would be using 1.5g of ram and 1.5g of virtual memory! If I were to save and reload, back to 500m/500m and turn by turn it'd slowly creep back up.

Oh well, at least I know how to solve the problem of a long wait between turns.

Agreed. Civ IV memory leak is VICIOUS . Few programs have matched it in my experience. If you don't have a lot of RAM you might want to reload sometimes...

 

[none]

The memory hit is a problem with game speed on huge maps. I think there is some CPU hit from higher graphic settings. The game doesn't actually look all that much better on high settings than low, and if it makes it more playable, which matters more, speed or looks?

People with low-end systems don't have to worry about this so much, but high end tempts you to crank up everything.

Exactly. I play on a laptop with 1 gig RAM (and Vista 32). I found out that going from high to low made a hell of a difference in late game on huge maps with 18 civs. Low isn't that nice but the difference between medium and high is not that huge.

I found out that at higher settings leaders would make my game lag, I'm considering replacing the animated leader heads with static leader heads. Maybe that'll help.

Civ 4 is a strategy game, eye candy doesn't matter that much.

 

[T.A JONES]

What are you, 12? ....

Your insecurity over your old technology P4 is pretty humorous. Please stop arguing with people who clearly have more information and can back it up with facts, not ranting and raving like a 7 year old on a sugar high.

Oh Man. Ok, The 'newb' bit said by me at the end was bit play on fanboy not meant as real. Judging by your speel that needs to be said

AS for the links, your head has to be clear. They have nothing to prove in the comparison with cedar or core 2 in a civ4 atmosphere. Are you a Nimrod? No, thats a unfair attack on Free Masons. How's dimwit sound? Good. As you more the un-enlightened aka ignorant sob blinded by commercial hype mentaily. Oh, and you will soon see.

First off to MAKE EVERYTHING CLEAR! What you state as Codename: Prescott 2M is not codename 'Prescott'.
Its even distingued on Wiki. you "clown" calling 'jacko'

The 2M is the Same thing in most ways but I bought the Cedar lucky for me.
Cedar has 3.2/3.4/3.6 ghz all on 2mb of L2 That give highest overclock reading on overclock.com . Same with record holding. That title goes to cedar not Prescott . Tell the editer he made a typo you wako

Why the hell would I want to get more risk of heat stress on overclock for my money when I can get the older Cedar model running pricewise the same with less chance of a flame, at higher clock rate?

Heck I go back here as late as a year where im quoted as saying the "2M" gave P4 a last cheer. A guy like you jumped the gun with a screenshot of his '2M' specs contesting Civ4 was fast on premium P4 specs. Civ4 ran best with his latest Core 2 he added, and so we checked.
A look closler revealed 1 gig difference in ram, a much weaker mobo and v-card of the day. I mean going 1 ram to 2 on that P4 was all he had to do. Better try pluggin the newer g-card and refined bus along for the 'ride' to. Now 'ol boy' should do what buddy wasted 'a few' seeking for the same on the buy of a Core 2'. Understood?

I won't debate where system ram over rides the benifits of better game designer plan. Especially when its intended for mono cpu. Or simiariarly, where a v-card specs takeover the benifit of greater supply of L2. All these measures in spec dependence have not been publicly disclosed at some general webpage but for those who choose to learn Its 'secret knowledge deservingly won. Example: civ3, where you see after 512 money spent on add-on ram mb awards further improvment.

Point is some speak out with emotions without taking into account all that entails.. You think playin any OLD game best is a matter of simply blowing a wad over whats ranked Top on 'Toms Thumbs-up his ass' picks list. Show me civ4 on Tom's bench list?
Hello? Where cha ya go?

I go with my hunch guided by signs that are available in relation to the subject. You won't see civ4 on Tom's so why look there when theres no where to run up against reports of dismal Core2 play on all civ4 tech forums today.

Again so you won't trip up again: "Prescott" has only 1mb of L2 and I know this model's ratio in producton number would far outdo the 'Mx2' The second run still drys a soaked shoe in under a minunte or two. Mybe why they went ahead and did the shrink set. Now are you saying this has nothing to do with reducing heat, says who? I'll show you mybe its just you?