Hi,
I have seen some discussion around the value of the Cohesive Values virtue. Some have claimed that it is useless. Out of curiosity, I have done some theorycrafting.
My conclusion is that it is indeed nearly useless in practice, assuming that my virtue cost formula and math is correct.
In a few words, the break-even point is at about 30 virtues. The break-even point is where a player taking Cohesive Values would have 1 extra virtue over a player that doesn't. That assumes the first player going straight for Cohesive Values.
The way I see this, that's a period of time corresponding to 25 virtues where the player taking Cohesive Values is at a disadvantage. To convince me to take Cohesive Values, I would need at least an equally long period of time where it ends up being the better choice. Getting bonuses earlier is more useful than later though. Somewhere a max of about 50 virtues in long games was quoted as well.
That said, there are still synergy bonuses and other things to consider. In the most optimistic scenario, it would be useful to get the last Knowledge synergy bonus which gives a free extra tech. It's also required to go down the left side of the Knowledge tree. All considered, I think this virtue is highly questionable in its current state.
And here are the theorycrafting bits:
The virtue cost formula appears to be 20 + (2n)^2 where n is the number of virtues the player has. This matches the values from Solargamer's recent videos. The game speed for which this is valid is unknown though. Obviously this formula could be correct for Solargamer's videos, but still be incorrect in longer games.
I'm assuming that the Cohesive Values effect on virtue cost is cost * 0.9.
And here is the output of my little simulation. The format is number of virtues, total culture cost so far for a player without Cohesive Values, and total cost for a player with.
I have seen some discussion around the value of the Cohesive Values virtue. Some have claimed that it is useless. Out of curiosity, I have done some theorycrafting.
My conclusion is that it is indeed nearly useless in practice, assuming that my virtue cost formula and math is correct.
In a few words, the break-even point is at about 30 virtues. The break-even point is where a player taking Cohesive Values would have 1 extra virtue over a player that doesn't. That assumes the first player going straight for Cohesive Values.
The way I see this, that's a period of time corresponding to 25 virtues where the player taking Cohesive Values is at a disadvantage. To convince me to take Cohesive Values, I would need at least an equally long period of time where it ends up being the better choice. Getting bonuses earlier is more useful than later though. Somewhere a max of about 50 virtues in long games was quoted as well.
That said, there are still synergy bonuses and other things to consider. In the most optimistic scenario, it would be useful to get the last Knowledge synergy bonus which gives a free extra tech. It's also required to go down the left side of the Knowledge tree. All considered, I think this virtue is highly questionable in its current state.
And here are the theorycrafting bits:
The virtue cost formula appears to be 20 + (2n)^2 where n is the number of virtues the player has. This matches the values from Solargamer's recent videos. The game speed for which this is valid is unknown though. Obviously this formula could be correct for Solargamer's videos, but still be incorrect in longer games.
I'm assuming that the Cohesive Values effect on virtue cost is cost * 0.9.
And here is the output of my little simulation. The format is number of virtues, total culture cost so far for a player without Cohesive Values, and total cost for a player with.
Spoiler :
