The Cold War Deluxe; 1950-1991

[I_batman]

making helis land units is a little risky. plus, they'd have to be categorized as either 'land' or 'sea' which would present a certain amount of problems.

on a side-note: we've noticed that having 'acc production' disabled allows for much shorter turn times which is a very, very good thing.

Actually El Justo, I am wondering if there is a way to make the helo only transportable on a standard transport and a carrier?.
I completely agree no chopper flies across the ocean, so has to be transported.

Also, I want to clarify the speed of the game now.
Yes, I have been playing with acc off, and tweaked a couple of the terrain values , and it has slowed production, which is good.

But I am thinking it is a combination of factors that is speeding up the game.
I have a new laptop I am using that is a P4 1.6 Ghz with 1 GB mem. This baby smokes just by itself. That coupled with less units floating around (due to lower production), and it equates to a max of 3 minute wait times at PEACE.

I played up to Jan, 1970, Emperor, as WP. When I finally moved, I rolled over Turkey and WG in about 4 turns. Scandavia was pushed off the continent in 3 turns. And the only reason was because pretty much every one of these cities had only one mech and a couple infantry in each. So at emperor level, at least, we are making progress on production, but this was way too easy.

Klyden had a good thought in one of his emails between us, about lowering the bonuses each of the key city improvements (factory, oil refinery, nuke plant, chem plant, manufacturing plant) has. I think I will try that as well.
By 1970, I have Moscow at around 165 shields, and that is without a chem plant and manufacturing plant. It will produce a T-62 (at current shield levels) in 5 turns. The lower the shield production each city has, the more flexibility we have to alter shield costs, and the more interesting (more decisions) it will be for the player.

But I am betting it will take quite a few weeks of tweaking and testing to figure out the new production levels and values.

Here is one thought on the various city improvements: I have seen in some games out there that you cannot build an improvement unless a specific resource or luxury is within the working radius of the city. ie. tobacco plantations need tobacco in one of the base scenarios in Conquests.
Now, this would be a pain to do, but how about this: Create 3 new city improvements. They would be coal plants, and steel mills, and aluminum smelters. Each improves production by some amount. But you have to have that resource (iron equates to steel), within the working radius of your city.
Same goes for oil refineries.

Would this not play a lot like your AoI scenario?

Anyway, will fool around with these ideas and email you the biq.

I am guessing, but I would think if we can get it set that a top production city can produce a low end infantry (at 100 sheilds) in 1 turn, we could then have a ton of fun setting values for the rest of the units, new and old.

Guess I have a lot to do for you in next little while.

 

[warmwaffles]

Not the ACH-64 gunship the Mi24 wouldn't stand a chance

 

[vingrjoe]

Actually El Justo, I am wondering if there is a way to make the helo only transportable on a standard transport and a carrier?.
I completely agree no chopper flies across the ocean, so has to be transported.

Here is how to make a ship transport helicopters, and only helicopters. (I just posted this same info in another thread).

Make the helo' an air unit, give it 3-4 moves, DO NOT make it immobile, check rebase if you want, flag it as a tactical missile. Now for the ship that transports it: check the air transport in the AI strategy, check the transport only tactical missile and transport only aircraft flags. This does work for a human player, but I don't know how the AI will handle.

Actually I think this is how Frigates should be employed, to carry ASW helos.

 

[warmwaffles]

Why not just make the Helo an air unit and with almost the same settings as a jet fighter and has the ability to load onto a carrier and you can give it a jump transport like that...Plus I learned how to leap frog helicopter this way to get them there in half the time...

Okay make the Helicopter have the Rebase, Recon, Airlift, Bombard (depends if its a gun ship) and any others that are needed to transport units...DO NOT load the helicopter with units..and just rebase it onto a carrier...and your gonna need about 3 carriers across the atlantic or how many ever is needed...and move all of the carriers with the helicopter on board and tell it to rebase to the farthest carrier..

Plus this game each turn represents a month so I highly doubt it takes 3 months to cross the atlantic by helicopter...but of course we all know the problems with civs hard code sometimes it pisses me off

BTW I am learning XML and I am gonna tell you IT IS SIMPLE...well if you dont know jack squat about computers your kinda S.O.L.

 

[El Justo]

Here is how to make a ship transport helicopters, and only helicopters. (I just posted this same info in another thread).

Make the helo' an air unit, give it 3-4 moves, DO NOT make it immobile, check rebase if you want, flag it as a tactical missile. Now for the ship that transports it: check the air transport in the AI strategy, check the transport only tactical missile and transport only aircraft flags. This does work for a human player, but I don't know how the AI will handle.

Actually I think this is how Frigates should be employed, to carry ASW helos.

i like this concept but how does bombardment abilities effect this? i mean, doesn't the 'tactical missile' flag make it expire after bombarding?

or

does this mean that w/out the immobile flag that the asw heli can engage subs and other ships in surface battle?

or

does this mean that the heli isn't designed to attack or bombard 'atall and instead, it's sole role is to 'see invisible' subs?

 

[El Justo]

DO NOT load the helicopter with units

this would mean that the heli-in-question would have to be soley for asw purposes. iow, the uh1s & uh60s wouldn't be able to be loaded b/c a unit w/ a transport capacity can't load onto a carrier or sea unit w/ a transport capacity...whew.

 

[El Justo]

btw, i revamped the DDs and DDGs so that they can't see the 'invisible' units (subs). all subs, however, have the 'see invisible' flag. frigates are the only units that can 'see invisible' now.

i know this isn't completely accurate but there is one primary reason i did this:
to make subs worth building and to try and capture one of the most diverse and competitive fields of the entire cold war: submarine warfare/technology

 

[warmwaffles]

hmm.....it worked in one of my mods? :/ I'm not sure Ima have to check the settings....if I can find the damn thing

 

[El Justo]

hmm.....it worked in one of my mods? :/ I'm not sure Ima have to check the settings....if I can find the damn thing

oh no...i clearly recall (in TCW 1.4) that i couldn't load my uh60s onto my carriers, even w/out any units in the heli.

 

[warmwaffles]

Ya I must have had somethin flaged and some wierd stuff I dunno I am lookin for the Biq file right now

 

[El Justo]

Ya I must have had somethin flaged and some wierd stuff I dunno I am lookin for the Biq file right now

you mean that you've landed/rebased helis w/ a transport capacity on a carrier?

 

[vingrjoe]

It won't expire after bombarding. The only reason I flag it as an aircraft and tactical missile, is to prevent frigates and/or destroyers from carrying jet fighters.

The bombard works like any other unit.

 

[warmwaffles]

Ya it was wierd or I could have done something that was completely and uterly stupid...cuz I did it right when C3C first came out

 

[El Justo]

It won't expire after bombarding. The only reason I flag it as an aircraft and tactical missile, is to prevent frigates and/or destroyers from carrying jet fighters.

The bombard works like any other unit.

okay...but what type of no's would an asw heli have?

recon? really low A/D? see invisible?

 

[warmwaffles]

Ya if the heli is flagged with see invisible and recons it CAN see subs

 

[El Justo]

the sea units are finished...man, they're exhausting w/ all of the stealth attack flags. i'll never go through that excrutiating process ever again --oy--

in total, there are now 115 total sea units in TCW. this includes the pre-existing ones and the pre '60 ones.

gone are the generic SSs and SSNs as well as the generic CGs. in their place is various hardware from the french, soviets, americans, english, etc. iow, each civ's sea units are completely flavored.

here is the final pre-'60 line (almost) for the USN:

Carriers
orig essex class (post war/korean war) (added in) --- coral sea (post war/korean war) (added in) ---oriskany

Subs
subs: gato (starting unit) (added in)
early 50s:
mid 50s: nautilus (already in)
late 50s: george wash (added in)
early 60s: skipjack (added in)

Cruisers:
Cruisers: Baltimore* (added in)
*2 of them, pre-placed & unbuildable

CGs
Leahy (added in)

DDs/DDGs
DD/DDGs: fletcher (starting unit) (already in)
mid 50s: forrest Sherman (added in)
early 60s: adams (already in)
late 60s: knox (added in)

BBs
2 pre-placed 'Postwar' Iowa class BBs (Miss & NJ) and maybe 2 'mothballed' versions
each upgrades to 'Modern' Iowa (added in)...the mother of all ships!!!

 

[warmwaffles]

So what tech and how much is it to build the modern Iowa?

 

[El Justo]

So what tech and how much is it to build the modern Iowa?

the iowas can't be built...the 'king' flag method will be sued to upgrade them sometime during the 2nd (2 of 3) era. these things are monsters!

 

[vingrjoe]

I would recommend an ASW helo having very low A/D, but a fair bombard, definately make it see invisible. Giving it recon would be up to you, but remember, after you use a unit to recon, even if it has turns left, it loses them.(another bright idea by Firaxis)

One thought just popped into my head. It seems that great scenarios such as this one and others, that make us fans really think and get ideas, sadly show the great shortsighted thinking of Firaxis pertaining to the editor and the limits they imposed on us modders. Yes, I know, there ways around some of the hurdles, but not all of them.

Anyways, back to the scenario. It's looking to be a very nice update.

 

[El Justo]

sadly show the great shortsighted thinking of Firaxis pertaining to the editor and the limits they imposed on us modders.

you ain't kiddin!

good point about the recon flag...i'll have to play around w/ it some.