You have to ctrl+F8, enabling bonus changes, once IN EACH MAP for the script to work
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The Cold War II - Development Diary Thread
- Thread starter JPetroski
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You have to ctrl+F8, enabling bonus changes, once IN EACH MAP for the script to work
It was already enabled on the others just the 4th map was different. Maybe it's an issue with my own machine not being able to handle it, but many thanks @Prof. Garfield for running it through!
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Well about the only Civ thing I can do while watching the kids is jot down ideas in a notebook, so not much "built" but the wonder balance is starting to take shape... It'll look a bit different than the last game. Really, all the improvements will now that canBuildSettings is so much more expanded and doesn't require me to bother with the various "continent" improvements.
I'm trying to strike a balance where all civs have access to some interesting wonders and more can be built. I don't have actual names for all of them yet.
USA
-United Nations (CIA)
-J.S. Bach (American Dream - becomes obsolete)
-Colossus (NYSE)
-Sun Tzu (Pentagon)
USSR
-Marco Polo (KGB)
-King Richard's Crusade (one of their industrial cities)
-SETI
-Great Library
*The idea is to keep them scientifically competitive even though their cities probably aren't going to be as great as the West's
Europe
-Adam Smith (one of the economic recovery programs)
-Cure for Cancer (likely universal health care)
-Magellan's (Royal Navy) - this one I think is interesting. Since I have so many extra advance slots now, I was thinking that perhaps the Europeans keep this wonder so long as their navy has more ships than any other navy. They start the scenario with a slight edge in total ships. Perhaps this will make for some interesting game play where they either try to keep their naval tradition, or do what happened in real life and basically cut costs.
-Hanging Gardens
China
-Hoover Dam (can be built)
-Pyramids (can be built)
-Copernicus
-Oracle
Non-Aligned
-Great Wall (idea being they have an easier time fighting barbarian units, which they're likely to go into direct attack vs.)
-Women's Suffrage (idea being they are the only civ that can really take advantage of this as they spend time as a democracy, or at least can).
-Isaac Newton's
-Michelangelo's (can be built)
To be Built
-Manhattan Project
-Eiffel Tower (limited use but perhaps I can expand it with Lua)
-Darwin's Voyage
-Lighthouse (SUBSAFE to keep the earlier subs from having accidents)
-Shakespeare
-POSSIBLY Leonardo's Workshop if I can get it working the way I want... I was thinking this could be a late-game Arms Race WoW where the civ that got it would cause real pressure on the civs that didn't and might either bankrupt them or possibly have a really good advantage for an end-game war.
Won't Use Or will use with Lua somehow though technically "obsolete"
-Apollo
-Statue of Liberty
I'm trying to strike a balance where all civs have access to some interesting wonders and more can be built. I don't have actual names for all of them yet.
USA
-United Nations (CIA)
-J.S. Bach (American Dream - becomes obsolete)
-Colossus (NYSE)
-Sun Tzu (Pentagon)
USSR
-Marco Polo (KGB)
-King Richard's Crusade (one of their industrial cities)
-SETI
-Great Library
*The idea is to keep them scientifically competitive even though their cities probably aren't going to be as great as the West's
Europe
-Adam Smith (one of the economic recovery programs)
-Cure for Cancer (likely universal health care)
-Magellan's (Royal Navy) - this one I think is interesting. Since I have so many extra advance slots now, I was thinking that perhaps the Europeans keep this wonder so long as their navy has more ships than any other navy. They start the scenario with a slight edge in total ships. Perhaps this will make for some interesting game play where they either try to keep their naval tradition, or do what happened in real life and basically cut costs.
-Hanging Gardens
China
-Hoover Dam (can be built)
-Pyramids (can be built)
-Copernicus
-Oracle
Non-Aligned
-Great Wall (idea being they have an easier time fighting barbarian units, which they're likely to go into direct attack vs.)
-Women's Suffrage (idea being they are the only civ that can really take advantage of this as they spend time as a democracy, or at least can).
-Isaac Newton's
-Michelangelo's (can be built)
To be Built
-Manhattan Project
-Eiffel Tower (limited use but perhaps I can expand it with Lua)
-Darwin's Voyage
-Lighthouse (SUBSAFE to keep the earlier subs from having accidents)
-Shakespeare
-POSSIBLY Leonardo's Workshop if I can get it working the way I want... I was thinking this could be a late-game Arms Race WoW where the civ that got it would cause real pressure on the civs that didn't and might either bankrupt them or possibly have a really good advantage for an end-game war.
Won't Use Or will use with Lua somehow though technically "obsolete"
-Apollo
-Statue of Liberty
Intriguing! What's the planned 4th map? Moon/outer space? Or a more abstract "cyberspace" realm?
This cool. Soviet spies and sympathisers, sending tech back to Mother Russia!
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Probably outer space - I was thinking about the scenario running from 2020 to maybe 2100 and forecasting what things might look like. We have a Space Force now and all so, that could be interesting.
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I've found room for the Pakistani army (though I don't know about this unit art for 1947). I think I will try and make Pakistan a much harder nut to crack in this version.
And have decided against having Norwegian troops for the Europeans and instead am giving them access to Colonial troops assuming they retain their colonies. These will be linked to a special building and shouldn't be everywhere.
And have decided against having Norwegian troops for the Europeans and instead am giving them access to Colonial troops assuming they retain their colonies. These will be linked to a special building and shouldn't be everywhere.
techumseh
Deity
I dunno John. That guy doesn't look very Norwegian to me.
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I decided to cut populations in half. When I first built this scenario, I used macrotrends.net to get the correct populations for cities in 1950. I then correlated these to the civ2 city sizes from the cheat sheet on the Scenario League wiki. That's all well and good for accuracy but I think a scenario as long as this deserves to have some city/nation building included, so I decided to just take all cities and cut them in half to accommodate this.
In that regard I'm also going to have things like marketplace, bank, stock exchange require progression down the tech tree to acquire. It will be pretty rare indeed that a city early in the game has some of the more powerful buildings.
Also @amadeus I added Dar es Salaam and Mbeya so Tanzania has some cities. Honestly leaving Mozambique as European was an oversight in the first game but one I might leave simply because to be neutral implies it isn't a colony. I wasn't sure if you had another cities you thought would be useful?
In that regard I'm also going to have things like marketplace, bank, stock exchange require progression down the tech tree to acquire. It will be pretty rare indeed that a city early in the game has some of the more powerful buildings.
Also @amadeus I added Dar es Salaam and Mbeya so Tanzania has some cities. Honestly leaving Mozambique as European was an oversight in the first game but one I might leave simply because to be neutral implies it isn't a colony. I wasn't sure if you had another cities you thought would be useful?
amadeus
Serenity now
I think with the dynamics of the game the S. Africans would overrun them if they were neutral so, yes, stripping them and Angola from the game at the start.
I didn’t find an atlas, unfortunately, but it looks like you’ve got data for cities. Only thing is a few name changes, like Yekaterinburg was Sverdlovsk until 1991. Fort Lamy for N’jamena, etc. I can pull those together easier and I will have it ready soon!
I didn’t find an atlas, unfortunately, but it looks like you’ve got data for cities. Only thing is a few name changes, like Yekaterinburg was Sverdlovsk until 1991. Fort Lamy for N’jamena, etc. I can pull those together easier and I will have it ready soon!
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Just an update for everyone - I've started inputting the tech tree into the rules and have the military and nuclear tech trees done. It makes it a lot easier working with the extra techs as I can just go down the line and not worry about special effects etc.
I think the tech tree is expansive enough that I might need to let the main powers use trade/freight after all (we'll see how some testing goes) but I'm hoping that the new lua abilities and options regarding trade routes can bring that to life more, and potentially help some civs that would normally be left behind with this.
I think the tech tree is expansive enough that I might need to let the main powers use trade/freight after all (we'll see how some testing goes) but I'm hoping that the new lua abilities and options regarding trade routes can bring that to life more, and potentially help some civs that would normally be left behind with this.
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I've been tweaking the Non-Aligned and Chinese units somewhat. The Chinese are "done" but I'm still working on the Non-Aligned.
-I got rid of the 'special' naval units since they weren't that great of models and both civs can build most of the naval units anyway.
-I didn't like my attempt at the Tejas so I went with a JF-17 instead for their late fighter.
-I went with the Marut and Orao for the Non-Aligned fighterbombers
-I grabbed an S-49 as an early fighter this nation can build on its own.
-China now has a good compliment of units. 2 tanks, 2 fighters, 2 fighter bombers, 2 helicopters and 3 infantry.
-I'm thinking I may redo the Non-Aligned infantry to more or less mirror the Pro-West/Pro-East but stronger (so a European, African, Middle Eastern, Southeast Asian, Latin American, and probably Indian) unit., Perhaps their big draw will be having an attack bonus against the "pro" civ infantry which won't make them unusually strong against the main civs but should help them expand.
(Of note i do need to find a good green beret or other "special forces" type unit to start the scenario with).
I'm trying to use what art we have so I think we only really have 1 home grown tank for the Non-Aligned, and this is it. But I think that's OK as they really ought to be buying other folks' stuff anyway.
-I got rid of the 'special' naval units since they weren't that great of models and both civs can build most of the naval units anyway.
-I didn't like my attempt at the Tejas so I went with a JF-17 instead for their late fighter.
-I went with the Marut and Orao for the Non-Aligned fighterbombers
-I grabbed an S-49 as an early fighter this nation can build on its own.
-China now has a good compliment of units. 2 tanks, 2 fighters, 2 fighter bombers, 2 helicopters and 3 infantry.
-I'm thinking I may redo the Non-Aligned infantry to more or less mirror the Pro-West/Pro-East but stronger (so a European, African, Middle Eastern, Southeast Asian, Latin American, and probably Indian) unit., Perhaps their big draw will be having an attack bonus against the "pro" civ infantry which won't make them unusually strong against the main civs but should help them expand.
(Of note i do need to find a good green beret or other "special forces" type unit to start the scenario with).
I'm trying to use what art we have so I think we only really have 1 home grown tank for the Non-Aligned, and this is it. But I think that's OK as they really ought to be buying other folks' stuff anyway.
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I've also made a slight change from the original game to starting positions that I hope make sense. The Non-Aligned used to only have India. Now, they'll have India, Yugoslavia, and Egypt. I appreciate the three didn't declare their non-alignment for a few years into the game, but I thought it made more sense to have the three of them start as Non-Aligned so people didn't ask, "isn't this just India?" and also to make gameplay a bit more interesting.
Europe (Britain in this case) will hold Port Said at the start of the scenario and we'll see if there is a renewed Suez crisis.
Europe (Britain in this case) will hold Port Said at the start of the scenario and we'll see if there is a renewed Suez crisis.
I've been tinkering with Civ2 scenarios as a kid, and frankly I'm amazed at all that these new ToT tools can achieve! I've been playing this scenario and I'm hooked, it's better than I ever imagined! Great job!
If I might give you some feedback (I've mostly played as the Soviets and the Non-Aligned):
If I might give you some feedback (I've mostly played as the Soviets and the Non-Aligned):
- Playing as the Soviets is though. You have very few pro-East cities, they can fall easily (Tirana especially is always bombarded by sea, I park a couple ships there as the Soviets so it doesn't get conquered three turns into the game), and your proxy forces often aren't enough to capture cities. On the other hand, the non-aligned have it so much easier. Maybe it's just me, but their proxy forces are gigantic and easily sweep up the map.
- The Vietnam War only happens if you aren't playing as the Soviets... I think it should happen every time, with increasing pressure for the Europeans to leave (and to give the pro-east an extra edge). For that matter, the map in Vietnam is weird. Hanoi should be much more farther north... What I do in my game is to rename the city of Hanoi to Hue (since it's near that position) and place a new city named Hanoi up north... but Hue still counts as Hanoi in game so... In any case, I think it would be fun if, after Hanoi falls, Saigon should be taken over by pro-West forces and start the Vietnam War.
- I know it's just the AI being dumb, but it's kind of annoying when you're playing as India and the European civ wastes all its fleet bombarding your cities... maybe the Non-Aligned could have the ability to negotiate truces with the Europeans and the pro-West? I understand that could get a little confusing though.
- It's weird that India gets more units when it conquers Pakistan and Bangladesh... shouldn't it be the opposite, it getting resistance from it?
- Maybe (I'm not sure how possible this is) there could be a "peacekeeper" or border invincible unit to prevent early conflicts? Like in the border of North and South Korea (maybe it could appear by event after a war there ends?), or to prevent Israel always taking Damascus.
- Hamhung in North Korea, to give the pro-east an extra city and make the Korean War more interesting
- Guatemala City: Guatemala had several civil wars between leftists and right-wingers.
- Córdoba in Argentina, maybe it's because I'm Argentine, but I believe it deserves a couple more cities. Tucumán or Salta could also be candidates.
- Trujillo in Peru. Maybe Arequipa too?
- Muscat in Oman... the proxy war menu mentions Oman, but there's nothing there!
- I would take out those two cities in Yemen and add Aden and Sanaa, after all, Yemen was divided in North and South during the cold war.
- Bissau, capital of Guinea Bissau
- Asmara in Eritrea
- Antanaviro in Madagascar.
- Srinagar in Kashimir, to represent that conflict
- Dublin as a neutral city... Belfast all alone there looks weird... maybe there could be an event to represent The Troubles?
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All good stuff! The cities are very helpful indeed. A few points:
For certain places I could use lua to do what I did with the U.S. for example and Mexico (they can't attack neutral units in cities, though I let them attack them in the field because the AI could wander them into Texas, for example). If I really wanted to, I could use zones and get rid of certain field assaults too.
I could also take away movement points from AI units in certain areas until certain times to freeze them, like I did with the Soviets in Hinge of Fate.
With that said, I do want this to be more of a sandbox. Though, perhaps, it doesn't make sense for the entire world to self immolate on the first few turns
India's not India though, it's the Non-Aligned and another country joined up. Pakistan is a pretty big country indeed which is why I give the boost, but in the next version maybe I'll be more careful with how I explain it in a text box so it doesn't leave one scratching their head.
The reason it didn't fire if you were the Soviets was to compel you to invest in it, but I suppose it's an important enough conflict that it should just be there, regardless.
For certain places I could use lua to do what I did with the U.S. for example and Mexico (they can't attack neutral units in cities, though I let them attack them in the field because the AI could wander them into Texas, for example). If I really wanted to, I could use zones and get rid of certain field assaults too.
I could also take away movement points from AI units in certain areas until certain times to freeze them, like I did with the Soviets in Hinge of Fate.
With that said, I do want this to be more of a sandbox. Though, perhaps, it doesn't make sense for the entire world to self immolate on the first few turns
India's not India though, it's the Non-Aligned and another country joined up. Pakistan is a pretty big country indeed which is why I give the boost, but in the next version maybe I'll be more careful with how I explain it in a text box so it doesn't leave one scratching their head.
The reason it didn't fire if you were the Soviets was to compel you to invest in it, but I suppose it's an important enough conflict that it should just be there, regardless.
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Man I haven't done much on this in awhile. I've started placing some units though. Really, can't wait to have a reason to get F-18's and patrol near Iraq. I still place units sometimes and just fly them around.
I have been trying to figure out a way to somehow balance Soviet aircraft carriers considering most of their unit types can't use them. I think what I'll do is just allow all Soviet helicopters on aircraft carriers, and disallow this for the west. I think this will allow them something to use these ships for until they get the Yak-38. The Soviets also get 3 types of helicopters compared to 2 each for everyone else.
Another thing I'd like some advice on is a 2nd tank for the Non-Aligned. Right now the only tank I have for them is the Arjun, which should be a late-game weapon. Not sure if there is another homegrown type in any of the Non-Aligned countries (and if we have art for it?) before then. In contrast, China has the Type 69 and Type 85.
Finally, I was thinking about redoing how the big powers can foment rebellions. Rather than just having the option of pressing a button and spending cash, maybe it makes more sense for the spy to be present and then you can do this? That would also add an interesting flavor in that if the spy is captured/found doing something they shouldn't be, there would be a major scandal (think Iran-Contra affair). What do you all think?
I have been trying to figure out a way to somehow balance Soviet aircraft carriers considering most of their unit types can't use them. I think what I'll do is just allow all Soviet helicopters on aircraft carriers, and disallow this for the west. I think this will allow them something to use these ships for until they get the Yak-38. The Soviets also get 3 types of helicopters compared to 2 each for everyone else.
Another thing I'd like some advice on is a 2nd tank for the Non-Aligned. Right now the only tank I have for them is the Arjun, which should be a late-game weapon. Not sure if there is another homegrown type in any of the Non-Aligned countries (and if we have art for it?) before then. In contrast, China has the Type 69 and Type 85.
Finally, I was thinking about redoing how the big powers can foment rebellions. Rather than just having the option of pressing a button and spending cash, maybe it makes more sense for the spy to be present and then you can do this? That would also add an interesting flavor in that if the spy is captured/found doing something they shouldn't be, there would be a major scandal (think Iran-Contra affair). What do you all think?
civ2units
Emperor
According to wikipedia some minor countries produced tanks based on a licensed design from tanks of the major powers. Because India is the main power for the Non-Aligned, I would give them the 'Viayanta' tank. It was first made in the UK but then production moved to India. The tank was produced between the 60's to the early 80's, so it would be a perfect precursor tank for the modern Arjun tank. It would give India the possibility to produce own tanks early in game.
With the spies sounds interesting but I would retrict it to regions which played a major role during the Cold War like the Middle East or some parts of Asia. I would make these regions valuable for all powers.
With the spies sounds interesting but I would retrict it to regions which played a major role during the Cold War like the Middle East or some parts of Asia. I would make these regions valuable for all powers.
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Yes, I was thinking of just having you press a button while the spy is active, you get a pop up about different things they can do, one of those things is to foment a rebellion. Depending on where you are on the map and what civ you are, you'll spawn different units. This should also be *much* less time consuming to implement from a coding perspective, and probably friendlier on the player since you don't need to scroll through several dozen different "nations."
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I'm still working on some of this (such as borders as well as island control) but I wanted to show off a 3rd map that I'm planning on using something inspired by @Pablostuka in his upcoming SCW scenario.
Basically, the old version of this scenario kind of devolved into "whack a mole" where the mighty naval powers basically chased around whatever the Soviets were up to. This is pretty unrealistic. Despite how many grand foreign adventures America has gone on, we aren't everywhere at once. Hence, there's now an "Interest" map that will speak to the main map (with regular geography/terrain).
From the US perspective, US forces can enter anything that is teal, dark green, or light teal. They cannot enter/attack units in other squares. Essentially, this means the US can always defend Europe, Canada (NATO), Japan, Australia, New Zealand. At the start of the scenario (1947) they can intervene in Greece or Korea, but nowhere else. Thus, if the Soviets start a rebellion in Brazil, the US can't deploy regular forces there without deciding to stop supporting either Greece or Korea (if they have a 2 maximum, in this example, though perhaps certain techs would allow for 3).
Dark Green = European Vital Interest (Europe, Canada)
Teal = USA Vital Interest (USA, Australia, Japan)
Light Teal = USA Special Interest (at start, Greece and North Korea). The US should only be able to have 2-3 regions have this status at any one time.
Other colors:
Light Green = European Special Interest
Light Red = Soviet Special Interest
Red = Soviet Vital Interest (USSR, Eastern Europe)
Light Red = Pro-East
Dark Blue = Pro-West
Yellow = China
Orange = Non-Aligned
I was thinking for Europe, what might be "fun" 'is if it costs them money to maintain tiles as "light green." Certain places (example, Hong Kong) are just one tile and the trade off is clearly worth it. Other places might be primed for decolonization as not worth it at any given moment.
Anyway, this is the solution I've come up with to keep proxy wars somewhat realistic and to prevent the US from being too strong. The US player can always fund proxies (pro-West) to fight rebellions the Soviets start, but they won't be able to just sail a carrier up and start pummeling whatever they want. You'll see the Soviets too have interests in North Korea and Greece, so they can intervene there as well.
For now, the Soviet interest is only in North Korea, Mig Alley, etc...
Honestly, it may make more sense to have a "Conflict zone" with the Non-Aligned so someone can attack them. This would be at the expense of the Pro-East/Pro-West which doesn't really need to be on the Special Interest map (which only signifies if a major can attack, anyway).
Basically, the old version of this scenario kind of devolved into "whack a mole" where the mighty naval powers basically chased around whatever the Soviets were up to. This is pretty unrealistic. Despite how many grand foreign adventures America has gone on, we aren't everywhere at once. Hence, there's now an "Interest" map that will speak to the main map (with regular geography/terrain).
From the US perspective, US forces can enter anything that is teal, dark green, or light teal. They cannot enter/attack units in other squares. Essentially, this means the US can always defend Europe, Canada (NATO), Japan, Australia, New Zealand. At the start of the scenario (1947) they can intervene in Greece or Korea, but nowhere else. Thus, if the Soviets start a rebellion in Brazil, the US can't deploy regular forces there without deciding to stop supporting either Greece or Korea (if they have a 2 maximum, in this example, though perhaps certain techs would allow for 3).
Dark Green = European Vital Interest (Europe, Canada)
Teal = USA Vital Interest (USA, Australia, Japan)
Light Teal = USA Special Interest (at start, Greece and North Korea). The US should only be able to have 2-3 regions have this status at any one time.
Other colors:
Light Green = European Special Interest
Light Red = Soviet Special Interest
Red = Soviet Vital Interest (USSR, Eastern Europe)
Light Red = Pro-East
Dark Blue = Pro-West
Yellow = China
Orange = Non-Aligned
I was thinking for Europe, what might be "fun" 'is if it costs them money to maintain tiles as "light green." Certain places (example, Hong Kong) are just one tile and the trade off is clearly worth it. Other places might be primed for decolonization as not worth it at any given moment.
Anyway, this is the solution I've come up with to keep proxy wars somewhat realistic and to prevent the US from being too strong. The US player can always fund proxies (pro-West) to fight rebellions the Soviets start, but they won't be able to just sail a carrier up and start pummeling whatever they want. You'll see the Soviets too have interests in North Korea and Greece, so they can intervene there as well.
For now, the Soviet interest is only in North Korea, Mig Alley, etc...
Honestly, it may make more sense to have a "Conflict zone" with the Non-Aligned so someone can attack them. This would be at the expense of the Pro-East/Pro-West which doesn't really need to be on the Special Interest map (which only signifies if a major can attack, anyway).
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