Stuporstar
Warlord
Thanks for pointing that out Keith, I completely missed them. Gems have now been added to the list.
The Complete Guide to Terrain, Improvements, Resources, and City Placement (v.2)
- Thread starter Stuporstar
- Start date
JackRules
incompertus vapulus
Excellent article, Stuporstar! You (with imput from others) have answered a lot of my questions, and I'm sure my management skills will improve. Looking forward to putting this useful info into action.
Thank you very much for this guide. It helps me a lot.
I have some questions about resources and their improvements.
1.
Gold------1C---------- -1P +6C +1 Happiness
Gems-----1C---------- -1P +7C +1 Happiness
Should it not be:
Gold +7C
Gems +6C
2.
Bananas---1F---------3F +2 Health
Do bananas really provide +2 Health??
3.
Whales---1F-------------1P 2C +1 Happiness
I guess the whaling boats still provide +1F
It took me a while to figure out how farms interact with resources.
Probably it could be explained like this:
Farms unlock fresh water / irrigation "resource" providing +1F. Biology also gives +1F. Farms also unlock wheat, corn and rice resources.
So e.g. grassland + rice + farm = 2F + 2F + 0F = 4F.
With irrigation on that tile: 2F + 2F + 1F = 5F
With Biology tech: 2F + 2F + 1F = 5F
With Biology tech AND irrigation: 2F + 2F + 2F = 6F
Am I correct?
Best regards
Vladas
I have some questions about resources and their improvements.
1.
Gold------1C---------- -1P +6C +1 Happiness
Gems-----1C---------- -1P +7C +1 Happiness
Should it not be:
Gold +7C
Gems +6C
2.
Bananas---1F---------3F +2 Health
Do bananas really provide +2 Health??
3.
Whales---1F-------------1P 2C +1 Happiness
I guess the whaling boats still provide +1F
It took me a while to figure out how farms interact with resources.
Probably it could be explained like this:
Farms unlock fresh water / irrigation "resource" providing +1F. Biology also gives +1F. Farms also unlock wheat, corn and rice resources.
So e.g. grassland + rice + farm = 2F + 2F + 0F = 4F.
With irrigation on that tile: 2F + 2F + 1F = 5F
With Biology tech: 2F + 2F + 1F = 5F
With Biology tech AND irrigation: 2F + 2F + 2F = 6F
Am I correct?
Best regards
Vladas
Stuporstar
Warlord
Hi Vladas, to answer your questions:
1. The values for gold and gems given are correct. It's explained below the chart that when mined they actually reduce the normal production value from a mine so it is -1P. That is -1P from the +2P you get from a mine, so what you will actually see on the tile is an added 1P. I used the values that would modify the mine value in the chart so you have to do the math resource+mine in that chart. One other thing I didn't do was add the base resource bonus to those particular values, which is why I wrote +6C for gold rather than a total of 7C. I guess I should include the total values as well just because it can get confusing that way.
2. +2 health is incorrect and I think that mistake came from the manual. I thought I caught all those early corrections, but I guess I missed that one. It'll be fixed in the guide now.
3. Yes that +1F is not taken away from whaling boats. I thought this would be pretty obvious since I didn't mention it being taken away, but I'll go ahead and include the total value just to be extra clear.
4. Irrigation does not provide +1F, the farm does. Biology adds +1F only to irrigated farms. Your math is correct though.
1. The values for gold and gems given are correct. It's explained below the chart that when mined they actually reduce the normal production value from a mine so it is -1P. That is -1P from the +2P you get from a mine, so what you will actually see on the tile is an added 1P. I used the values that would modify the mine value in the chart so you have to do the math resource+mine in that chart. One other thing I didn't do was add the base resource bonus to those particular values, which is why I wrote +6C for gold rather than a total of 7C. I guess I should include the total values as well just because it can get confusing that way.
2. +2 health is incorrect and I think that mistake came from the manual. I thought I caught all those early corrections, but I guess I missed that one. It'll be fixed in the guide now.
3. Yes that +1F is not taken away from whaling boats. I thought this would be pretty obvious since I didn't mention it being taken away, but I'll go ahead and include the total value just to be extra clear.
4. Irrigation does not provide +1F, the farm does. Biology adds +1F only to irrigated farms. Your math is correct though.
DaviddesJ
Deity
Stuporstar said:
I don't think so. Gems should be 6C and Gold should be 7C. You have the reverse.
Hello,
Thank you for clarifications.
My point is that the values of gold and gems should be reversed. Gold +7C and gems +6C (or without the base bonus: gold +6C, gems +5C).
You have stated earlier:
"I've recalcuated the values so that the base bonus is calculated into the improved value and reflect what you will actually get added to the base terrain."
In the instance of whaling boats it looks like you stated improved value without the base bonus. It might be misleading.
If the farm is on bonus resources without irrigation, it provides no food by itself, just the resource value. Then irrigation adds +1F, and Biology again +1F. That was confusing me. I hope I understand it correctly now.
Best regards,
Vladas
Thank you for clarifications.
Stuporstar said:
My point is that the values of gold and gems should be reversed. Gold +7C and gems +6C (or without the base bonus: gold +6C, gems +5C).
Stuporstar said:
You have stated earlier:
"I've recalcuated the values so that the base bonus is calculated into the improved value and reflect what you will actually get added to the base terrain."
In the instance of whaling boats it looks like you stated improved value without the base bonus. It might be misleading.
Stuporstar said:
If the farm is on bonus resources without irrigation, it provides no food by itself, just the resource value. Then irrigation adds +1F, and Biology again +1F. That was confusing me. I hope I understand it correctly now.
Best regards,
Vladas
Stuporstar
Warlord
Vladas said:
Ah, I see what you mean now. You are quite correct.
Vladas said:
When you put it that way I can see how what I did is so confusing. I should probably change all of them so they follow the same standards.
Vladas said:
I had forgotten completely about that effect, and didn't quite get what you meant when you first asked the question. I'll have to mention how it works that way in the guide.
Thanks for the clarifications to your questions Vladas. I get what you mean now, and have made all the necessary corrections
brokguitar
Chieftain
Hello Stuporstar, the guide is looking great 
Blkbird
King
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
- Messages
- 860
Randwolf said:
Confirm. Here are screenshots from a savegame of mine. (Please note this is an actually generated and unedit map, it's opened in the WorldBuilder only because oil and uranium haven't been revealed yet - victory has already been achieved though.)
Oil in Jungle:
Uranium in Forest:
From Stuporstar's Guide
< Your workers can improve any tiles that are within these cultural borders (only roads/railroads can be built outside). The citizens within your city can only work within your city boundary. In the beginning you will only have a 9 square boundary. As culture in your city develops, these borders will expand. It takes 10 culture points for the first expansion. Known as the 'fat cross' once it expands to 21 squares (the 21st being the city itself, which is automatically worked), your citizens will only be able to work these 21 squares surrounding your city, even though your cultural borders will continue to expand well beyond that. >
First, thank you for this very helpfull guide.
Second, My question is: why would workers improve tiles wich are outside of city boundaries, wich citizens cannot work on?
Third Continue the good work, and please anxwer me as i'm going nuts on trying to figure that one out.
Lukas
< Your workers can improve any tiles that are within these cultural borders (only roads/railroads can be built outside). The citizens within your city can only work within your city boundary. In the beginning you will only have a 9 square boundary. As culture in your city develops, these borders will expand. It takes 10 culture points for the first expansion. Known as the 'fat cross' once it expands to 21 squares (the 21st being the city itself, which is automatically worked), your citizens will only be able to work these 21 squares surrounding your city, even though your cultural borders will continue to expand well beyond that. >
First, thank you for this very helpfull guide.
Second, My question is: why would workers improve tiles wich are outside of city boundaries, wich citizens cannot work on?
Third Continue the good work, and please anxwer me as i'm going nuts on trying to figure that one out.
Lukas
Blkbird
King
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
- Messages
- 860
Lukas901 said:
That's simple. For example, you've just researched Iron Working, which reveals all the Iron on your map. As it happens, the only Iron you can see is right outside of your capital's city boudaries, but within its culture border. Now you naturally want to build a Mine on the Iron and Roads to connect it to your capital. Since even if you can't work on that tile, you still get the Iron resource and can start to train Swordsman now.
Every resource brings extra benefits besides tile improvement. Strategic resources enable or accelerate the construction of certain buildings and the training of certain units, luxury resources give you Happiness, food resources give you Health. For all that you want to improve and connect resources within your culture borders even if your cities can't work on it.
Based on the info from this thread, I created an Excel chart for total yield of each type that might be useful for strategizing (maximizing your city's yield based on the nearby terrain)
It probably isn't news to anyone, but I thought I'd post it nonetheless, in case someone is interested. (hopefully the formatting will work out right)
I intend to use it to roughly calculate the 20-tile yield potential around a settlement site and mark out how to optimize the site.
It probably isn't news to anyone, but I thought I'd post it nonetheless, in case someone is interested. (hopefully the formatting will work out right)
I intend to use it to roughly calculate the 20-tile yield potential around a settlement site and mark out how to optimize the site.
Code:
Terrain Base F P C Yield Notes
Peak 0 0 0 0 Impassible
Desert/Snow 0 0 0 0
Tundra +1 0 0 +1
Sea +1 0 +1 +2
Coast +1 0 +2 +3
Inland Coast +2 0 +2 +4 Fresh Water
Grasslands +2 0 0 +2
Plains +1 +1 0 +2
Terrain Features F P C Yield Notes
Ice 0 0 0 0 Impassible
Jungle -1 0 0 -1 2mp; +50% Defense, -0.25 Health
Flat 0 0 0 0
Forest 0 +1 0 +1 2mp; +50% Defense, +0.4 Health
Hill -1 +1 0 0 2mp; +25% Defense
Floodplains +3 0 0 +3 -0.4 Health
Oasis +3 0 +2 +5 2mp; +2 Health; Fresh Water
Rivers 0 0 +1 +1 +25% Defense; Fresh Water
Settlements F P C Yield Notes
Basic Value +2 +1 +1 +4
on Plain/Hill 0 +1 0 +1
next to River 0 0 0 0 +2 Health
on Commerce Resource 0 0 +1 +1 Need River
on Food Resource +1 0 0 +1 Need Grasslands/Flat
on Production Resourc 0 +1 0 +1 Need Plains/Flat
on Production Resourc 0 +2 0 +2 Need Plains/Hill
Improvements F P C Yield Notes
Farm +1 0 0 +1 Need Fresh Water
+Biology (Non-irrigat 0 0 0 0 Need Biology, no Fresh Water
+Biology (Irrigated) +1 0 0 +1 Need Biology + Fresh Water
Mine 0 +2 0 +2 Need Mining + Hill
+Railroad 0 +1 0 +1
Cottage 0 0 +1 +1 Need Pottery
Hamlet 0 0 +2 +2 10 turn from Cottage
Village 0 0 +3 +3 20 turn from Hamlet
Town 0 0 +4 +4 40 turn from Village
+Printing Press 0 0 +1 +1 Village and Town only
+Free Speech 0 0 +2 +2 Town only
+Unversal Sufferage 0 +1 0 +1 Town only
Workshop -1 +1 0 0 Need Metal Casting
+Guilds 0 +1 0 +1
+Chemistry 0 +1 0 +1
+State Property +1 0 0 +1
Windmill +1 0 +1 +2 Need Machinery
+Replaceable Parts 0 +1 0 +1
+Electricity 0 0 +1 +1
Watermill 0 +1 0 +1 Need Machinery + River
+Replaceable Parts 0 +1 0 +1
+Electricity 0 0 +2 +2
+State Property +1 0 0 +1
Lumbermill 0 +1 0 +1 Need Replaceable Parts + Forest
+Railroad 0 +1 0 +1
Resources F P C Yield Notes
Food (Base) +1 0 0 +1 Base unworked resource bonus
Production (Base) 0 +1 0 +1 Base unworked resource bonus
Commerce (Base) 0 0 +1 +1 Base unworked resource bonus
Corn +2 0 0 +2 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Farm
Wheat +2 0 0 +2 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Farm
Rice +1 0 0 +1 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Farm
Horse 0 +2 +1 +3 Production Base, Need Animal Husbandry + Pasture
Cow +1 +2 0 +3 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Pasture
Pig +3 0 0 +3 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Pasture
Sheep +2 0 +1 +3 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Pasture
Deer +2 0 0 +2 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Camp
Furs 0 0 +3 +3 +1 Health until Plastics, Commerce Base, Need Camp
Ivory 0 +1 +1 +2 +1 Health until Industrialism, Production Base, Need Camp
Stone 0 +2 0 +2 Production Base, Need Quarry
Marble 0 +1 +2 +3 Production Base, Need Quarry
Silver 0 -1 +4 +3 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Mine
Gems 0 -1 +5 +4 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Mine
Gold 0 -1 +6 +5 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Mine
Copper 0 +1 0 +1 Production Base, Need Bronze Working + Mine
Iron 0 +1 0 +1 Production Base, Need Iron Working + Mine
Coal 0 +1 0 +1 Production Base, Need Steam Power + Mine
Aluminum 0 +1 +1 +2 Production Base, Need Industrialism + Mine
Uranium 0 0 +3 +3 Need Physics + Mine
Bananas +2 0 0 +2 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Plantation
Dye 0 0 +4 +4 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Plantation
Incense 0 0 +5 +5 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Plantation
Silk 0 0 +3 +3 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Plantation
Spices +1 0 +2 +3 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Plantation
Sugar +1 0 +1 +2 +1 Happiness, Food Base, Need Plantation
Wine +1 0 +2 +3 +1 Happiness, Commerce Base, Need Winery
Oil 0 +2 +1 +3 Production Base, Need Well
Fish +3 0 0 +3 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Fishing Net
Clam +2 0 0 +2 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Fishing Net
Crab +2 0 0 +2 +1 Health, Food Base, Need Fishing Net
Whales 0 +1 +2 +3 +1 Happiness until Combustion, Food Base, Need Whaling Ship
Buildings Notes
Granary +1 Health from Corn, Rice, Wheat
Harbor +1 Health from Clam, Crab, Fish
Market +1 Happiness from Fur, Ivory, Silk, Whale
Grocer +1 Health from Banana, Spices, Sugar, Wine
Theatre +1 Happiness from Dye
Supermarket +1 Health from Cow, Deer, Sheep, Pig
Lighthouse +1 Food for all water tiles
The Colossus +1 Commerce for all water tiles, until Astronomy
Sample Combos F P C Yield Notes
Food - Corn/Wheat +8 0 +1 +9 +1.6 Health, Need Floodplains/River + Farm + Granary + Biology
Food - Corn/Wheat +7 0 +1 +8 +2 Health, Need Grasslands/Flat/River + Farm + Granary + Biology
Food - Pig +6 0 +1 +7 +2 Health, Need Grasslands/Flat/River + Pasture + Supermarket
Food - Fish +6 0 +2 +8 +2 Health, Need Inland Coast + Fishing Net + Lighthouse + Harbor
Food - Crab/Clam +5 0 +2 +7 +2 Health, Need Inland Coast + Fishing Net + Lighthouse + Harbor
Food +5 0 +1 +6 -0.4 Health, Need Floodplains/River + Farm + Biology
Food +4 0 +1 +5 Need Grasslands/Flat/River + Farm + Biology
Food +3 0 +2 +5 Need Inland Coast + Lighthouse
Commerce - Town +1 +2 +8 +11 Need Plains/Flat/River + Printing Press, Free Speech, Universal Suff.
Commerce - Town +2 +1 +8 +11 Need Grasslands/Flat/River + Printing Press, Free Speech, Univ. Suff.
Commerce - Gold 0 +4 +7 +11 +1 Happiness, Need Plains/Hills/River + Mines + Railroad
Commerce - Gems 0 +4 +6 +10 +1 Happiness, Need Plains/Hills/River + Mines + Railroad
Production - Aluminum 0 +7 +2 +9 Need Plains/Hills/River + Mines + Railroad
Production - Coal/Iro 0 +6 +1 +7 Need Plains/Hills/River + Mines + Railroad
Production - Lumbermi 0 +5 +1 +6 Need Plains/Hills/River/Forest + Railroad
Production - Mine 0 +5 +1 +6 Need Plains/Hills/River + Mines + RailroadDaviddesJ
Deity
bhchan said:
Definining "yield" as the equally weighted sum of food, production, and commerce, isn't very useful imho. Generally, food is worth more than production, and production is worth more than commerce.
Does this apply to food as well, like a city that has 2 fish nets being worked by citizens, and then a third fish ressource appears outside the city radius, inside the culture radius. Would there be any benefit to sending a work boat?
Or more simply, is there any reason to putting a farm, regular with no specific ressource, outside of city radius? Or mining a hill, again outside city radius, that has no ressources?
TTFN
Or more simply, is there any reason to putting a farm, regular with no specific ressource, outside of city radius? Or mining a hill, again outside city radius, that has no ressources?
TTFN
DaviddesJ
Deity
Lukas901 said:
Yes, you can trade the extra food resource to another civilization.
Lukas901 said:
Mostly no, unless you build a city to work that tile at a future time. When you build a mine on a tile with no resource, there's a small chance of discovering a resource, which could be useful. But the probability seems to be quite small, so I wouldn't suggest you do it just for that reason.
Great thread!
I never realized that if one city mines, say, Gems, that all others connected to the trade network realize the benefit.
Which brings up the question: Is there any reason to mine more than one, say, Gems? If you only have one and you trade it, do you loose the benefit?
I never realized that if one city mines, say, Gems, that all others connected to the trade network realize the benefit.
Which brings up the question: Is there any reason to mine more than one, say, Gems? If you only have one and you trade it, do you loose the benefit?
DaviddesJ said:
I'll have to take your word for it... I'm very amateur-hobbyist when it comes to Civ4, so I haven't got a clue on what would make sense for experienced stategists.
Maybe I'll throw in a multiplier for food and production? 2, 1.5, 1 yield-adjustment for FPC?
I was thinking that maxing out at 20 population per city (to fill up all the immediate plots) would be ideal, but maybe not.
Blkbird
King
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2005
- Messages
- 860
Lukas901 said:
As I've already said before, all Food resources gives you Health. So for that reason you want to improve them even if you can't work on it. Plus you can trade extra Food to other nations.
If you play a low difficulty level, Health is usually not an issue. If you go higher however, it will matter a lot.
Lukas901 said:
Regarding Farm, because they carry Irrigation once you've researched Civil Service, you will most likely want to build a chain of Farms outside your cities' working area to bring fresh water to some of your cities' working tiles. As of Mine, I don't see any reason to build them outside of your cities' working areas - the chance of discoverying something is really too small - it's not worth that trouble.
