The Deity Challenge Line-up #30 - Iroquois

[stormtrooper412]

oooooooh boy, this is gonna take a while

I went Tradition since there's no room for expansion, that guy next door is gonna come a knocking so I better be ready. I'm pushing the cargo ships to their limits, as you can see, without river farms, there's not really much growth possible.

A fairly difficult start location but the Longhouse is doing its job, the production is good except there's hardly anything to produce except units and they cost money. I suppose a campaign is in order to level the playing field

The guy far east hoarded pretty much every wonder so far, I only managed to score ToA before falling behind everybody.

 

[consentient]

@Stormtrooper412

Spoiler :

Looks like we took roughly the same expo location to the West. When did you find it? I was lucky and got Optics from a ruin and sent a settler and an archer over there. Kailash even helped me get a religion. I didn't settle one to the East though. Too many barbs initially and then Beardo beat me to it.

 

[beetle]

...since there's no room for expansion...

Is that spoiler material?

I was already planning for 4 city Tradition, so no harm, no foul. BO will be my usual scout, scout, shrine, monument, then worker for early chops for as many settlers as I can connect via forest before NC. Do the forest connections need The Wheel?

Tech order will be pottery, mining, calendar, then optics before heading to philosophy. I may try getting Stonehedge. A more realistic plan is a temporary pantheon giving extra food from camps or production from fishing boats.

 

[prodi]

SV 288

Spoiler :

Not an interesting game for me, the start was challenging with the extra barbs, and I was very, very late to achieve the NC and Education because of it. Since I didn't catch up in science until the mid-to-lategame, my only real choice with my playstyle was SV. I was attacked a few times by Assyria and the Aztecs, but fended them off and next-turned myself into a win.

I appreciate the map, but too isolated start for my taste. I've never played the Iruqouis before, and the extra hammers on this map were great, but I understand why it's reckoned as a weak civ.

-prod

 

[stormtrooper412]

@Stormtrooper412

Spoiler :

Looks like we took roughly the same expo location to the West. When did you find it? I was lucky and got Optics from a ruin and sent a settler and an archer over there. Kailash even helped me get a religion. I didn't settle one to the East though. Too many barbs initially and then Beardo beat me to it.

Around the time I finished NC, so a fair bit late

 

[Olodune]

This is another map with many interesting (at least to me) choices.

to t100

Spoiler :

Oh my, hello Mr. Barbarian

I did lose an early scout, but at least I kept my warrior alive this time. No worker steals since by the time I'd cleared a path it was too late; Yerevan had a quest I could do and Ashurbanipal is scary. That is a t60 army. Gandhi will not survive:



I did go Tradition since I wasn't sure how many expands I could get. But I've built 5 cities and have another settler wandering westward. I did use some of our forest as chops to accelerate early builds.

Assyria is seriously scary and won't give me full value trades. I'm playing as nice as possible with Ashur. He even gets a caravan.

I'm not too thrilled with Akwesasme but settled it before I found the large western subcontintent.



I'll settle west too. I think I can grab Vilnius to help with the happiness issues that will be incoming:

 

[adcarrymaokai]

As if we needed more proof that this civ sucks. I derped around, so the game dragged unnecessarily long. Got a t282 Diplo: Forbidden Palace, World Religion, World Ideology, Globalization. Bought some nuclear weapons and tried to bully the AI's to vote for me, but they didn't.

 

[budweiser]

I played this map again using just 3 cities and I achieved the same result as before. I was 1 vote short on the first election which was held on T251. I failed to get FP this time or I would have won. I had World Ideology.

So this tells me if I can get three out of these four, then DV is assured: FP, World Religion, World ideology, all CS. All this is making Piety more attractive to me and science less attractive. A religion on Deity is hard, but not impossible.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I'm going to have to restart because I forgot to save and I played an other game since and autosaves got overwritten... Maaaaaaaaaaaaan

 

[beetle]

Thanks for a fun map!

Lost by CV on turn 262. I don’t see any way for me to win this, so I won’t try replaying, game was over too fast for me.

Consentient, would this map work for your domination tutorial?

 

[consentient]

Absolutely not, beetle. Anyone who can do Domination on this map is far better than I am. This map is pretty tricky for empire builders. Turtlers should be OK, but nothing of interest for wide players unless you want to

Spoiler :

colonise the island to the West

(but that won't help you win a DomV or CV).

 

[Olodune]

to t150

Spoiler :

Pachachuti entered the Renaissance around t103 which is fairly standard. However, he entered through Printing Press, which is not standard. That meant a t110 Leaning tower of Pisa - the earliest I can recall seeing. That also meant a very early world congress. I still passed WF, but only put in 350 since it was way too early to interrupt other builds

My spy is dead, as usual, but at least he did a little work this time - 2 techs (Guilds & Machinery) and a coup.

The core:



The west, where Cathy is rexing pretty hard:



I'm not sure what the plan is from here. I'll get schools to keep the tech pace up, then re-evaluate the situation.

 

[Olodune]

As if we needed more proof that this civ sucks..

I'm still not so sure - the extra worker efficiency from chops and forest movement is not insignificant. Most other civilizations would have a harder time with this start, no? Obviously the Iroquois are not the Shoshone, but, I wouldn't call them awful either.

 

[Olodune]

@stormtrooper

Spoiler :

In your original game where is that Engi from? ToA + longhouse engineer? Interesting ...

 

[adcarrymaokai]

I'm still not so sure - the extra worker efficiency from chops and forest movement is not insignificant. Most other civilizations would have a harder time with this start, no? Obviously the Iroquois are not the Shoshone, but, I wouldn't call them awful either.

Well, yes, this particular start benefits the Iroquois specifically, but they still feel like they don't even have a UA. It hardly scales past the first 50 turns, and it's not like they can snowball off that early game anyway.

 

[kb27787]

This map has been rigged, right? (I wish the OP would put that up in the opening post); I don't recall ever seeing such barbs...

 

[Acken]

Yes there a few extra brutes near you. As recommended I've added these stuff to OP for transparence.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

I thought it was a plot twist to make worker steal harder.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Fun, fun, fun

Spoiler :

Since I lost, quite literally, the previous game, by not saving and then allowing the autosaves to overwrite themselves, yeah DEEEEEEEEEEEEERP, I restarted...

So, yeah, WHAT THE HELL BARBS ALL OVER THE FORESTS, that kind of forced my hand early: Scout -> Monument -> Granary -> Worker -> Archer, iirc

A total of 6 city Liberty game in which I mixed up Patronage to Scholas, full Ratio and full Order. Liberty finisher was used for an Academy. Game was slow but then picked up the pace, i.e. I picked up the pace. Monty went Atomic one turn late so I had to wait 30 for the vote, however I'm not sure I would have won anyway. I managed to get Oracle, Great Lighthouse, Neusch and Forbidden Palace (nobody went Patronage).

Now for the funnier stuff:

Ashur is one incoherent blob because he ate Russia and India and I think at least 2 city states. He also had Battleships fairly early so I had to adjust my relative tech path so as not to get caught flat footed. My military CS allies fed me enough troops to keep me safe from anybody. Nobody attacked and once I had nukes, things calmed down in a hurry, I guess he AI heard what happened that time India invaded China (it was DCL16).

I posted two more fun screenies: one had Monty giving an... indecent proposal. IS HE HITTING ON ME????

The other one shows the power of Longhouses I guess, I aced the WF and I didn't even participate full time, I could have easily cleared 1500.

In the end, I bulbed to Ecology, then used Ratio finished on Telecom and Oxford on Globalization. That, with FP and World Ideology was just enough, if anyone ate some more CSs, it might have been tricky

oh and, yeah the early engi in the previous game was from ToA + Longhouse. I figured, hey let's get Sistine *gone*, alright, Forbidden Palace is available *whoosh*, right how about .. nope, they all gone

 

[phillipwyllie]

...one had Monty giving an... indecent proposal. IS HE HITTING ON ME????...

At first glance it looks like Monty's being civil. He's not though as he wants to sacrifice you.