The Deity Science Challenge

[RedRover57]

Interesting. In my first attempt (Siam) that tile is where I placed my second city so I will have to check to see if I have the same bug. I abandoned that attempt, but think I may still have an autosave. The reason for abandoning was that I tried a Liberty start (actually, Tradition opener then left side of Liberty as I was going to try the Legalism "trick" with Wats later), but didn't get as good of a start as I was hoping. It's really tough to beat the 4-city Tradition start strategy. In addition, barbs were giving me fits (lots of surrounding camps due to the open area) plus Napolean launched an early attack and the combination, although survivable, derailed my early strategy.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

yeah, ive tried a couple times and i really wanted to get Petra. i got it once but at the cost of units for defense and lost it twice by less than 5 turns because of barb harassment making me build a couple units. I'm going to try it again.

I needed a break from it to clear my head. I played the xcom demo last night. it looked fun but i always wait a while to get a game so that patches and fixes can come out. might need a new video card to run it at its fullest though.

edit: yeah, that's weird. i went into the mapreveal save and the hill tile doesnt say river but the others do. im sorry about that since its the better spot to settle on with the hill. im not sure why it says that. you can add and remove rivers when making maps but i didnt adjust anything in that area, as far as i remember. i generally dont do much with rivers unless they are really excessive in some areas or if i want to add a lake at the mouth for realism reasons.

 

[Grendeldef]

No need to re-do anything for my sake. I just never observed anything like this so I was wondering if glitch was here or does concern everyone. I think I'll quickly do few starts with other civs to see if the same happens.

G

---
And no, I don't play with strategic view nor does it affect the situation in anyway. This was just for the sake of convenience to see the river.

 

[Grendeldef]

All starts seem to work the same way including the one with map revealed - that particular tile isn't a riverside one.
With this I also include pics from the next two bugged tiles I found. This is getting interesting.

G

 

[RedRover57]

Petra would be really good in my third city site (west by the incense), but I figured that there is no way to beat out Ethiopia or Greece to Petra (one or the other will beeline it based on their capital location). Speaking of city sites, here is what I am thinking in order of settling:

1. Capital (settle in place)
2. NW on the river hill (2 fish site, gems and spice? in 3rd ring)
3. W near the mountain, incense, bananas (cities 2 and 3 to cut-off American expansion)
4. S on the coastal marsh for Krakatoa and 2 pearls (river might be better if you don't mind losing out on Krakatoa)
5. E on the river hill/mountain (no unique lux unfortunately but good defensive position against France)
6. N of city 5 on the jungle hill (again, no new lux but lots of jungle [science] and defensive mountains to the E - cuts off Greece)
7. Salt island with deer and 4 fish

This is more cities than I would usually settle, but with the pantheon that gives +1 culture per jungle tile (Sacred Path) it still may be possible to get all of the important social policies (full Tradition, full Rationalism, as many in Order as possible [increased science for factories policy at the very least]). I haven't decided yet when to build the NC - probably after 4 cities, but I would hate to lose out on city sites 5 and 6 to Alex or Napolean.

Challenges:
Barbs and aggressive neighbors (Greece, France, America, China) will require building more early units than usual. Fast expansion will be difficult because of the likelihood of early wars. In addition, the lack of unique lux at some potential city sites plus the difficult of improving tiles with all of the jungle will mean that happiness will be an issue in the early game (making Monarchy almost mandatory). Lack of rivers at several of the sites will mean slower growth. Low production in the capital will be a problem (in fact I really dislike low production capital starts and this may be a game breaker for me - just not fun to play).

Edit: Heh, post #666. Maybe that's trying to tell me something about this map.

 

[Schalke 04]

Could someone post a screenshot of the map please? Especially the starting terrain + surroundings.

I am not sure if I will participate on this challenge since I have 2 other games to finish before the patch comes out... However, if I can see the "world" I might think about how I would settle/start and maybe find some time to start an attempt anyways...

 

[RedRover57]

Could someone post a screenshot of the map please? Especially the starting terrain + surroundings.

I am not sure if I will participate on this challenge since I have 2 other games to finish before the patch comes out... However, if I can see the "world" I might think about how I would settle/start and maybe find some time to start an attempt anyways...

I would suggest just downloading the mapreveal file since you can examine it in much greater detail than with a screenshot.

 

[Grendeldef]

Edit: Heh, post #666. Maybe that's trying to tell me something about this map.

I could argue that you passed a beastly map notification 50 posts ago - even Wikipedia recognizes that now but I've a mixed feelings about the map itself, never mind the minor bug.

I've only played ~130 turns so far but without a war though Nappy seems like one will start in any turn now. Very peaceful game altogether since everyone has their own space apart from China which was divided between Nappy & Alex. No real runaways but Genghis has ~20 cities.

While the map obviously lacks production and food apart from capital & the little island southwards I slowly coming to a conclusion that it's interesting - it's just slow if that word could be used. Everything seems to be happening in slow motion and I'm so much off from standard pace that I can't give even a rough estimate of VC time. Also the snakyness is a bit worrying if Mongolia becomes a runaway - others can be reached with relative ease.

3 city trad start followed by 2 more after NC @ ~T80. Petra went T93 but I haven't bothered with any wonders so far nor have I even befriended a single CS. My 'army' is more like a security for a small shop but since the opposition is AI I'm not too worried yet. If those freakin' horses were a even a tile to any direction it could be different but I disbanded my original 'kill'em 1st & learn to read later' approach very early.

G

 

[DGDobrev]

I've decided to play a few civs in paralel just for the fun of it, cause my game time is limited. So far I started Babs, Siam and Maya. Babylon is the clear tech leader, but that makes it awfully tough to expand with them, and the capital is in a poor place for OCC. I have only 3 cities on T110 with them, and I missed the Rationalism jump too. With Siam I also wanted to try the 4-Wat strategy, but I am still not able to do it around T120, as everything is going really slow. With both Babs and Siam I was forced into defensive wars against America, and what's worse, while in OCC you can buy yourself out and make friends for 1-2 gold, with more cities they always want the second, or even third one for peace. Yeah, right, you're not getting it. War's better.

The Maya game is fun. T130, almost to Rationalism (yeah, kinda slow), 4 cities, war with Napoleon. However, this time I DOWED. I saw Nappy was getting on everyone's nerves, he also dowed china and greece and had 2000+ gold on T60 (!!!). So I simply sold everything, to him, gave him the loan and DOW'd. Used the cash for troops, universities and such and promptly accepted the diplo hit. I did it just for the fun of it, really... But them Genghis started to taunt for like 15 turns... and then made friends with me. China and America followed, then the Iroquios, and then Greece. So I have DoF's with 5 nations (and RA's with 3), war with Napoleon, and normal relationship with Ethiopia, while still having my base 6 Atlatlists. Fun game

 

[Tabarnak]

So I simply sold everything, to him, gave him the loan and DOW'd./QUOTE]

Does the DG letters from your name is for Dirty Guy?

 

[DGDobrev]

Actually, they are my initials, and Dobri in English means "Good"... Sometimes, however, when someone gets on my nerves (although it takes a long time for that to happen), I can be really, really bad... Besides, I always wanted to test tommynt's sell and DOW strategy with the mayans on youtube (or was it MadDjinn?)... The thing is I feel kinda cheap for doing it, so never before have I done it.

However, as MadDjinn said in his youtube video, it is important to keep an eye on the global politics. If someone's a bully, like Napoleon in my game, he is bound to get a lot of hate coming his way. So if you don't get friendly with him, or even dow him, you are bound to make lots of friends - and he had right, as my play-through shows. This is also the first one when America did not DOW me. In all other 6-7 ones (including the first few which I simply quit) I always had Washington knocking on the door between T40 and T60.

Actually, it is my peaceful nature that kept me playing mostly OCC, Culture, Expansion, and Science games rather than going on the offensive

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i just quit a maya game ~t240. i had 4 cities and cap with 20 pop but 3 other cities stuck at 7-8 pop (i stagnated on purpose cuz i wanted to go a little wide--settled my cities far enough away to fill in the gaps but never did because of wars). i had ~400bpt at the time and finished Plastics ~225. I did get a religion and Petra but not enough tiles to make good use of Petra. settled a GS on the desert that eventually gave me Aluminum. by the time i caught up in tech to take some of the cities around me i was using crossbows/pikes against cities with 45-55 defense and rifles/gatlings. America just kept flooding units in. I took Houston twice. He has rifles and eventually great infantry. but i got so many promos i was using 2-attack extra-ranged gatling guns to kill his units. killed 50+ of his units. then France came at me with PARATROOPERS and cannons. i actually got a clean peace deal with america but france's foreign legion (then p-troopers) just wiped me out. France, Genghis and Hiawatha were the top 3 scores and France was 300 ahead of everyone. China was hassling Greece and France was hassling everyone on that side of the map. Signed RAs with Mongols, Greece, Ethiopia, and Iro.

One more thing: I don't know why but I thought 8 Civs and 16 CSs on standard size map would only allow 5 religions but in my games there have been 6 religions. I'm have no idea why. Had I known this I would have put it in the descriptions. I have made a few bad assumptions on these maps and I apologize. Finding those dead river tiles is also frustrating. I still have some learning to do. I'm glad you guys are giving it a shot. I hope to see a finished time from some of the better players. I still havent gotten my win with these yet.

Off to try #5, haha ...

 

[RedRover57]

I'm trying with Babylon and it's very slow going since I have been in perma-war since about t40. Either with America, France or both at the same time, with only a 10 turn break with each after I killed off dozens of their units. France in particular has been sending wave after wave of ridiculous numbers of units - mostly musketeers. It's made it very hard to expand and improve tiles. I haven't made it to Rationalism yet at around t140ish - I had to take Commerce opener after full Tradition because I was 2 turns from stealing Gunpowder to get into the Renaissance. NC around t110 after 4 cities. Currently 5 cities and no more room left near me except for the salt island. NW (2 fish) city has that bugged tile and I can't build a watermill - great defensive position though. Iroquois are runaway and have gatling guns already (they made it to Industrial by about t140). Wonders? What are those?

The problem with this map is that the AI civs have too much space to REX unimpeded and they get very powerful, very fast.

 

[DGDobrev]

I am considering trying a different strat with Babylon. OCC till Education, buy Settler, send it to the southern island and settle as soon as Oxford is finished. Might make a great 2nd city as it has a river, a lux and plenty of tiles to grow and produce stuff. Those 2 cities just might be enough to make a good game with Babylon. No mountain on the island, but that would have been too much

And, HammerRabbi, the map is cool enough for my tastes. The only thing I would change is the horse placement (which is outside of the capital's 3x3 grid), as Arabia needs them. However, it is nothing a well-placed second city cannot solve, so it is still a manageable goal.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

this time with maya i have a better 1st 150 turns. settled in place and timed a worker purchase 2 turns before 2nd worker finished. got my city rolling faster than the 1st time. had 4 cities by t62 but in slightly different spots. one north to settle on the spices, 1 west to settle on a desert hill that had incense and citrus n the 3rd tier. it has decent growth and production from the hills. and one south on the marsh to work krakatoa and get 2 pearls. i have 2 more cities by t150, one east by the mountain on the hills w/river and chokepoint to the lake where cape town is. and one more south of the city on the marsh to get closer to the CSs for religious pressure.

pantheon (desert faith) on turn 8. got religion by t80 (tithe and mosques) and enhanced by t110 (pressure and monasteries for the wine/incense tiles). got NC by t115. have about 32fpt. i have 6 crossbows now but oddly enough not 1 war. made friends w/America, France, Mongols, Hiawatha and decent relations with Greece, Ethiopia n China. They are warring w/each other but I think one is coming after my 5th n 6th cities. I need to build some more units, push my religion, and get specialists rolling. I have 3 unis going and signed 3 RAs but the first one won't hit for another 10 turns which should finish the tech w/PT.

first bak'tun GP was an admiral for scouting. the 2nd was a GS for settling. havent gotten a 3rd yet. dont have a single wonder.

Its bedtime so i'll try n finish it tomorrow. I need to work on getting some coal for factories. Didnt get any cities where it spawns.

And yeah, RedRover57, they do have a lot of room to settle. Everyone has a wide empire in my game except Ethiopia n China who have 3-4 cities. Sydney took one of Greece's cities (Halicarnassus) while at war with China and razed it, haha. He then settled it again.

 

[Grendeldef]

One more thing: I don't know why but I thought 8 Civs and 16 CSs on standard size map would only allow 5 religions but in my games there have been 6 religions. I'm have no idea why. Had I known this I would have put it in the descriptions. I have made a few bad assumptions on these maps and I apologize. Finding those dead river tiles is also frustrating. I still have some learning to do. I'm glad you guys are giving it a shot. I hope to see a finished time from some of the better players. I still havent gotten my win with these yet.

Off to try #5, haha ...

I've been exclusively playing 8 civ & 16 CS maps since G&K and this is the 1st time I've seen 6 religions - 5 has always been the maximum.
Poor production makes these game a slower than average so it'll take some time to complete several but I assume I'll get there eventually.
I just need more presidential debates or something similar to justify playing while multitasking. Luckily we have city/county level elections within a month.

G

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

I've been exclusively playing 8 civ & 16 CS maps since G&K and this is the 1st time I've seen 6 religions - 5 has always been the maximum.
Poor production makes these game a slower than average so it'll take some time to complete several but I assume I'll get there eventually.
I just need more presidential debates or something similar to justify playing while multitasking. Luckily we have city/county level elections within a month.

G

yeah, there is no way to choose how many religions are available in map creation or game creation. i also play 8/16 exclusively (well, 99% of the time) and ive never seen anything but 5 religions. i always thought it was a product of how many civs there are in game.

haha, i work on election days as a precinct official. if i could bring a computer the day would go by much faster. i also play during the debates, and on a saturday I play during football games.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

i continued that game from t146. did very well but lost focus around t220 or so. ended up losing on t280 to a UN vote to either France or Ethiopia (did a replay from 20 turns back to see if the gold bleed/dow would work). I just needed to survive the first vote and I could have won. I was only 2 parts away with the last booster taking 8 turns to finish. It was really a strange game. I didn't have ONE WAR THE WHOLE GAME! I did have 3 hostiles at the end but only for repetitive tech steals. I finished all the techs by t270. My 6 cities had 24, 12, 12, 11, 10, 9 pops. I had 5 factories and specialists running full time in 4 cities. I had some happiness problems that kept my growth in check. 4 CSs were conquered, 1 of which was a mercantile. I could have spent more on them to keep myself positive but it would have been at the expense of some upgrades--i clearly didnt foresee no DoWs, haha.

France had 57k gold in his coffers just sitting there. He had 27 cities, all pop of 10+. Haile had about 16k when the turns that led up to the vote happened. When it came up he had only 2k. Every turn each CS changed hands maybe 3 times. 5 Civs made Apollo and 2 Civs had only 2-4 policies left to finish. Genghis nuked Haile with some uranium i sold him. China got wiped out by t230 or so, some by greece and the cap by france.

very close with Maya this time. I could go back to the t146 save and prolly do it but each new load has them play a little differently so a DoW would prolly happen. plus i want to try another civ now. I think i did give them too much room to grow.

 

[DGDobrev]

The map is proving to be quite interesting, really. I am fooling around with a +1 faith/desert and ToA opening (to get a GE for PT, with a view of buying a 2nd GE with faith for hubble), but so far my 2 attempts don't produce big results... America and France go after my hide very early, the second time both at the same time. I beat them both off (america's CB's and France LS), but it took a long time.

Gotta try it again. There is potential in this tactic.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

The map is proving to be quite interesting, really. I am fooling around with a +1 faith/desert and ToA opening (to get a GE for PT, with a view of buying a 2nd GE with faith for hubble), but so far my 2 attempts don't produce big results... America and France go after my hide very early, the second time both at the same time. I beat them both off (america's CB's and France LS), but it took a long time.

Gotta try it again. There is potential in this tactic.

im likewise struggling to get good results. i played with inca saturday and maybe its just me but when i'm inca Petra goes pre-t70 (t66 and t68) but when i play as anyone else it's post-t95 (107 and 110 for me and 90s for AI in all of my tries). Does the AI prioritize it when im Inca? And France and America were pals with me but Greece sent 25 units 40 tiles away to my borders for a sneak attack at t80. I only had 8 units to defend but all those jungles that slowed their movement let me do it without losing a city but really setting me back turn-wise. I had to make 2 of those units by switching off libraries and delaying NC by at least 15 turns. It didnt help that slingers kept losing my settlers because they flee when attacked by barbs. Not to self: don't escort with a slinger, haha.

the only ones i havent tried yet are Arabia and Siam. I will try them later but I'm not as comfortable with Siam.