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The Desert and the Mountain - Empires of Africa

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Plotinus, Nov 8, 2005.

  1. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    This looks fanatastic, can't wait to download.
     
  2. beboy

    beboy Ut tensio sic vis

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    This is actually what happened... :D By the end of the game, the Hausa DARED to attack me with their MILLIONS of units. I was going to pay back and crush them with my my army of Zealots :evil: when i achieved a Cultural Victory. Those Zealots are indeed very strong, but I like the idea of the necessity to trade incense with Yemen in order to build them.

    i'll try what you suggested concerning playing Ethiopia now. From what I've seen, it will sure be a greater challenge...
     
  3. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    [Nanocyborgasm] Yes, you can build cities on Oases or indeed any desert terrain. You will have to build roads there first, or your Settlers won't be able to go there. Note that this applies to Colonies as well. The desert contains resources which a number of civs will want to control if possible, making Colonies a useful option for a change.

    [beboy] Sounds very nasty. The Zealots are fun, aren't they!
     
  4. johnnyjal

    johnnyjal Prince

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    It's another great job! I have to agree with Hr. Rambuchan
    that you (and he) make the most interesting scn's (at least for me)
    They are not about simply hitpoints. They encompass all the aspects
    of the game. I got to play this a little today. My random choice was Mali.
    Interesting choices to make. I can tell this is going to be one of those
    scn where I try out all the different civs.

    I know I getting civ4 for xmas. At least now I won't be
    waiting for the day to come - too busy trying this scn
    and a couple others.

    Thanks mucho..:goodjob:
     
  5. man o' war

    man o' war AKA Kristophski

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    Wow this looks really good - not really a subject which has particularly interested me before, I have to admit, but this has already impressed and interested me enough to get me to download!
     
  6. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Just finished a simultaneously frustrating and interesting session as the Kanem-Bornu.

    It started out pretty bad - the Ouaddai attacked me very early on, which stunted my growth, and it took a while to get used to the workings of the "nomadic" nature of my empire. The stables-as-airports system is pretty nifty, but having no roads is problematic on the military front - I can't swiftly send troops from front to front.

    After taking a further beating from the Hausa, I finally managed to recover enough that I could exact revenge on the Ouaddai. I had chased them down to the equatorial woods when disaster struck in the form of an Adalian declaration of war. The Adalians themselves were chased off easily enough, but they brought in the Hausa and the Ayyubids as allies, both of whom had by now grown to minor superpowers. I put up a pretty spirited defense, but was eventually overwhelmed.

    The Ethiopians were eliminated very quickly by the Adalians and the Falasha. The Bejans were also eliminated pretty early on, by the Ayyubids.


    Due to the whole "nomadism" thing, it seems the Kanem-Bornu are best played in an ICS style. I may try them again, and see if I can improve on my record.


    Addendum: I see you're using the Shaka gfx for the army. I was under the impression regular unit gfx could not be used for armies? I'd be most thankful if you told me how you implemented this - if I could use the Maya king gfx for the armies in The Classic Maya, that would be one less obstacle to getting the graphical aspect of the scenario complete.
     
  7. grumpylad

    grumpylad Warlord

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    LOve the scenario, very interesting. I've played a couple of the positions. I noticed an error when the Diwan is built, any thoughrs on how to correct it.
     
  8. beboy

    beboy Ut tensio sic vis

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    Just finished another game, but playing the Ethiopians this time. Very interesting and challenging, especially in the first few turns. First, you are almost certain to loose Adulis and Axum in the hands of the Falasha. It is also pretty likely that Massawa will be destroy by the Adalians... I guess the only way to get out of this uncomfortable situation before complete annihilation situation is to get rid of the two Falasha Runners; then you have more freedom to defend yourself and eventually counterattack! :nya:

    Man, I really enjoy this scenario! Now, I think I'll start a new game but as Makuria or Mali. The concept of getting points by trading accross the desert is especially intriguing. As a matter of fact, I will study your biq file to understand how it work and it is prettry likely that I will use this concept and others from Desert and the Mountain for the creation of a pre-Revolution North American scenario (17-18th centuries).
     
  9. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    Thanks for the comments. I'm glad people are enjoying it!

    [TLC] Yes, you need to rethink your playing style when you have no roads. You'll notice that the Skirmisher, available late in the game, has incredibly fast movement and is therefore pretty useful; also the Fanatic is good. Close-placed cities are essential - in fact it's a good strategy for all civs in this scenario. You need to decide whether it's worth making a beeline for Agriculture, and perhaps passing up the more violent techs in the top half of the tree, or sticking with them and going for all-out jihad. I think you were unlucky to get picked on by the Ouaddai, though. They're normally fairly feeble! Getting attacked by the Ayyubids is frequently a death warrant, though.

    [grumpylad] That's annoying. I just checked the file and found that I left out a Wonder splash for this Wonder. Stupid of me! I'll post a correction later today.

    [beboy] Yes, Ethiopia inevitably loses those cities. The big dilemma for Ethiopia at the start of the game is how hard to try to defend them. It is possible to defend Axum successfully from the Falasha and the Adalian attack, but by doing so you risk over-extending your troops and succumbing to the second Adalian wave! Certainly feel free to use some of the ideas for your own - I'd be interested to see what you come up with.
     
  10. MjM

    MjM Deity

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    The Link appears isn't working , which is a damn shame, this looks great
     
  11. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    @Plotinus: What about the Shaka/army gfx?
     
  12. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    I sent you a PM - did you get it?

    [MjM] There seems to be some kind of problem with all downloads from CFC right now (I can't download anything else or upload anything). Hopefully it will sort itself out soon, but in any event it's not a problem with this particular link.
     
  13. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    No, :blush: I didn't see the PM indicator. I'll be looking at it ...
     
  14. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    MjM, the links are now working again.

    I've added a small patch to the downloads section on the first page which address the Diwan issue. All good mods have a patch!
     
  15. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    I'm amazed Steph manages to be able to do anything Civ related with all the stuff he's doing.
     
  16. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    So finally I have a spare night with the disc to put a session in. With plenty of friends from Ghana I made the sentimental choice. So......


    "Cha ley madamfo"
    ('Greetings my friend'*)

    Please try to imagine the accent.

    Why don't you sit down with a bowl of Foofoo and listen to my little story?

    I woke up one morning and looked around. And, to tell you the truth madamfo, there really was not very much to see. So I sent my men out across the lands.

    When they came back the first said 'Bwana, there is this man sitting with his people to the south. He is like us, so you need not worry'. I am not one to worry, so I did not. The second came to me and said 'Bwana, there is this man to our east. He is like us, so you need not worry. But I think there are more men, beyond him, who are not like us.'

    "Yes I have heard of these people," I said, because indeed I had and I am not one to lie. "Go out and find them. Sit and eat some foofoo with them and tell them about us. But more importantly - find out about them. Go! I can make more like you in just a few turns, so go now eh!"

    And so they went off and they did indeed discover other people. Virtually all of them Musalmans. So the going was good. I soon learned of the other kingdoms and that I needed to become great like some of them.

    In my kingdom a plan was hatching. I wanted more people to hold up my royal bench as I went through town. More people to bring me gold for my medieval African bling. So I sent people to go make ziggy ziggy to the east and stay there making ziggy ziggy under my name. They did this and soon I had gold. I knew the bringers of The Prophet's Word were eager traders, so I took my people off the ziggy and started the gold mining, in preparation for my visits to the northern hareems. The Mediterranean maidens do please my soul so. Fortunately my people had done so much of this ziggy that I was able to settle more lands east, where there were horses I could not ride and tribes whom I could not speak to. No matter. At least others could not.

    In all this time I was quite the friendly face and I received much the same sentiments from my brothers and sisters in the land. There were some Arab Bwanas who were not pleasant to my brothers but at least this did not happen to me eh!

    Ah, so you may think all was going well madamfo, but I tell you this. As I was quietly building up my army of swordsmen and had even begun to explore the great sea of sand to the north, there was some trouble from this one Arab Bwana. Leading the Adal men, he demands me to give him money. "Fa wha?!" I say. And he tells me to take up my sword and defend myself. I laughed it off for, even if he was the biggest bean in the Oware board, this was a distant bwana. So I got on with exploring the sandy sea and building my army, even thinking of...please do not share my secret with anyone madamfo....thinking of taking out one of my own brothers (the Songhai to be precise). Anyway, I did not and it was many turns before I even saw one of this Arab Bwana's men, quite alone and no match for my swordsmen.

    But that Arab Bwana starts twisting the ear of my brothers and my sisters. Yes indeed madamfo, I tell you no lies. My Hausa sister decides she is to join him on the next Hajj and not with me. She declares war and she has many funny looking men at my borders. They are not good when they are not given the chance to dance first. So I have been cutting them down and keeping them at bay. But now my Hausa sister is really giving me too much trouble. So much indeed that I could not bear to see me losing those tribes I could not speak to and those horses I still cannot ride.

    So I have come to eat some foofoo with you and to tell you this story. The truth be told madamfo, I think this is maybe some vengeance from the ancient spirits. You know, the ones we knew of before Allah. I think maybe they are cursing me for thinking of taking my brother Songhai's lands. One girl from the hareems to the north tells me that there is a man called Jesus who I can turn to who will give me a clean conscience. Easy as that. It sounds good no? Maybe I will go visit her and trade some gold while I get the full detail on this man. I hope to bring you good news. Until then...

    Cha ley Madamfo!

    * This is some Tchwi I remember still :D. Never written it so just slapped it down phonetically, the rest isn't appropriate for these boards.


    Thanks or a great scenario Plot! It's quite a gem. I didn't expect to write so much of a story, so I'll fill you in on the actual details of the likes and dislikes some other time. For now though, I can quickly say that the music was groovy, sublime and highly evocative. Thanks again for all of it! :hatsoff:
     
  17. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Administrator

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    Ah, it was a judgement from Cghene upon you, for thinking such unworthy thoughts towards your brothers and sisters in the peaceful land of Songhai! You need to make a seven-fold offering before the oyise tree, eh!

    Glad you liked it, and thanks for an evocative story... I'm hoping to have a chance to get to grips with the Mughals soon myself!
     
  18. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

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    So it is out ! Glad. It looks like a good work again.
    Unfortunately I still need to finish TLC's Mayas and Rambuchan's India first but it sure is on my list.
     
  19. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    @ Plot: My offerings have been made to all and sundry. So here is some more specific feedback based on the 50-60 turns I played.

    Praises:

    Gameplay:
    - The barbs are great. I always love enhanced barb action. You also seem to have manipulated their behaviour quite well. They pestered but never raided cities. Of course I exploited this nicely.
    - The Sahara is well conceived and delivered IMO. It does seem to function like a sea and you can play good tricks with the barbs as they ‘come ashore’ onto land your ordinary military can operate in.
    - Those camel ships of the desert are a nice dynamic, I look forward to getting into some more serious camel warfare. Their late coming means that the barbs remain like nomadic raiders which cannot be dispatched until a later time. That brings a good sense of realism and colour.
    - And the worker obligation is a good one, I’ve always been a fan of colonies and now the resource race beckons to my glee.
    - It's also nice to have fairly cheap techs with a feeling that you're getting somewhere.
    - I haven’t quite discerned the other civs’ gameplay dynamics, more concerned with my own survival, but I like the fact I have to watch out for a number of possible wins. Always good that.

    Units: - Arabian Pikeman very nice. Love the pyjamas. The little barbs look cool too and the Ansar Rider is well placed with Kanem-Bornu. I also like the ships which appeared on my coasts belonging to the Ayyubids.

    LeaderHeads: Bejans, Kanem-Bornu, Ghana, Falasha look awesome.


    Static Graphics:
    - Goody and barb huts are most apt and very well done, props to the maker of these. Nice contrast between the African and Islamic city graphics, yet they work well together in the game. The Christian style in the east was looking good too.
    - Also, I'm not quite sure why you asked me to find some artwork for the icons. You've done really well as is. The tech tree is filled with some very authentic pieces and they bring out the cultural landscape admirably. OK there are some gaps (which I can still happily help with) but its a good series of paintings that work well together. That word again, highly evocative.

    Music: This was great. There was one piece early which got a bit pseudo-tribal, a la Philippe Glass and it wasn’t so good but that’s a matter of taste and didn't last long. The call to prayer was beautifully sung also. I’m not a Muslim but it’s always a moving sound and fitted in nicely. Now 2nd or 3rd tune is one with a female vocal, sounds almost Celtic or from the LOTR soundtrack. This is a sublime piece of music. I’d like to know who made it. There was some music with some pretty good beats later in the game also. I like your taste in music Plot.

    Little OT: Upon hearing what you had done with the music, I actually conceived of a whole soundtrack for the Mughals scen with a quick flick through my records, many of which I haven’t heard in years. Some Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Zakir Hussein, some mellow north Indian classical flute, some opium den jazz [pimp]. It’s a real pity my technical buddy seems to have taken a break from CFC or at least tending to his PM box. This is also why I haven't been able to put out a patch yet. Anyway, music is definitely overlooked in scenarios.

    Suggestions / Criticisms:


    There are not many, especially given I didn't have an epic session.

    - I might be missing something, or it may have just been a gameplay decision but Ghana and Mali are placed the wrong way round geographically speaking. I'm not just saying this based on modern geography btw.

    - Yuroba: Where were these guys?

    - As my 'in-character account' suggests, I felt more could have been made of the religious tapestry of the era and locale. Sure you've got it across the wider picture but there could perhaps have been more of a sense of the original beliefs in W.Africa and perhaps even more of a suggestion of Christianity in North Africa (an email I sent about St Christopher and theose dogheads mentions all this). But you may have included this in the 'pedia and later tech tree and I simply haven't seen it yet. In which case, just tell me to shut up. Just a mention on that though.

    - Ethiopia was taken in the first 5 or 6 turns of my game. I mean they collapsed or were consumed. This seemed a bit weird from the West African position. I wondered what the point was in having them there in the first place. Again, playing on the other side of the map may put that in perspective.

    - The Arabian VPL Tent is a good idea. But IMO the graphic is a bit weak for such an important part of your game. Too grainy.

    - Steel: OK you've got iron in but what about steel? The Arabians were getting up to some pretty sophisticated steelcasting techniques in your time period and I reckon this could be a good replacement for iron in an upgrade. You know, just to make it a little different. Search for Damascus, Steel and Forging for the middle ages and you'll come up with the goods on this.

    I'm sure there's plenty more to feedback but that's it for now.
     
  20. Rambuchan

    Rambuchan The Funky President

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    Three more quickies before I get down to work:

    - Loved the irrigation art.

    - Likewise with the Sea trade bonus idea, but find a new graphic for that perhaps. The galley looks a bit weird. Many other ships to choose from.

    - How about including 'Dates' as a luxury / bonus in the upgrade?

    Cheers. :)
     

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