The Early Zionists' Choice

[Crimson Sunrise]

(I hope I can start a thread with the word "Zionism" in the title without starting a fight.)

I have heard that one of the locales that the early Zionists were considering as the site for a Jewish state was in South America. How would this have worked? Because I was under the impression that just about all the land in South America was claimed at the time.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

The one I read about - the British were planning for a Jewish homeland to be located in Uganda, Africa in the late 19th century(?).

Didn't work out though...

 

[Xen]

belive it or not, Brazil I have heard has a quite large jewish population, and the whole uganda thing comes from the belife that the descendent of one of the "lost tribes" of israle were the ancestors of the Ethiopian nobility (at least the nobility), and probabley spread throught out the area, Rastafarians certainlly belive that oe of the last Ethiopiean emperors was God...

 

[G-Man]

Hertzel, the most important leader of zionism prior to the establishment of Israel, was the leader of a wing in the zionist movement that believed that a jewish country should be established with the acceptance of the ruling powers. After being rejected by the Turks who controlled the country at the time and by their German allies he turned to Britain, which was the strongest power in the middle east at the time. Britain made three proposals, which Hertzel agreed to examine despite the objection of other wings in the zionist movement, hoping to achieve a place outside antisemetic europe in which jews can stay untill they'll be allowed to go to Israel. The three British proposals were:
1. The Cyprus proposal - A proposal to settle jews in Cyprus. It was rejected due to local opposition and because of the tensions already existing between the two local populations.
2. The El Arish proposal - A proposal made by Britain, hoping to have a jewish settlment that'll protect the Suez canal from the Turks. Was again rejected by the locals and due to the fact it was immpossible to bring fresh water to there.
3. The Uganda proposal - A proposal to settle jews in Uganda. Hertzel accepted it following the Kishinev pogrom, but a committie appointed by the sixth zionist congress found it to be unfitting for jewish settlement.

 

[EdwardTking]

Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise
(I hope I can start a thread with the word "Zionism" in the title without starting a fight.)

I have heard that one of the locales that the early Zionists were considering as the site for a Jewish state was in South America. How would this have worked? Because I was under the impression that just about all the land in South America was claimed at the time.

There were many parts of America which became comparatively underpopulated in the interval between the natives being struck down by old world disease and the european settlers moving in.

 

[Eli]

Something to keep in mind is that even Hertzel and the other proponents of the Uganda program always refered to it as a temporary solution to save the Jews from the pogroms and whatnot while the Zionist Movement works towards getting permission of permanent and massive settlement of Israel.

 

[phoenix_night]

What about Argentina? Was that one of the possible sites?

 

[G-Man]

There were three proposals. Argentina wasn't one of them, and I have no reason to believe it would've been suggested by any of the european powers which Hertzel turned to.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
There were three proposals. Argentina wasn't one of them, and I have no reason to believe it would've been suggested by any of the european powers which Hertzel turned to.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ shows/oslo/etc/historic.html

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/ transcripts/p1.093002.herzl.html

http://www.trincoll.edu/~kclark2/the_city_of_jerusalem.htm

 

[G-Man]

The first two don't work, and the last one says Hertzel "considered" it, and nothing about actually getting such an offer or such an offer being seriously considered as an option by the zionist movement.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man


The first two don't work, and the last one says Hertzel "considered" it, and nothing about actually getting such an offer or such an offer being seriously considered as an option by the zionist movement.

Sorry they didn't work, don't know why.

All I meant was it was considered, so why the laughing face?



It was considered early on by Zionists (or leader of) as a possible site. I never mentioned an offer or anything, only that it had been considered by the Zionists.

I was correct.

Now my turn to laugh...




Note: j/k with that (laughing thing), don't really want another long and pointless debate about Zionists...

 

[G-Man]

The laugh was because it's rare to have two links not working...

And it was considered by Hertzel but not by the zionist movement, and as I mentioned before Hertzel wanted a jewish country through the acceptance of the great european powers, which non of them would give him Argentina or any part of it.... In any case had it been seriously proposed it would probably be rejected from the same reasoning as Uganda.

 

[phoenix_night]

Originally posted by G-Man
The laugh was because it's rare to have two links not working...

And it was considered by Hertzel but not by the zionist movement, and as I mentioned before Hertzel wanted a jewish country through the acceptance of the great european powers, which non of them would give him Argentina or any part of it.... In any case had it been seriously proposed it would probably be rejected from the same reasoning as Uganda.

Hey, I was j/k...

I already pointed out exactly what I meant when I questioned Argentina...no more Zionists debates! Please!

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Originally posted by Eli
Something to keep in mind is that even Hertzel and the other proponents of the Uganda program always refered to it as a temporary solution to save the Jews from the pogroms and whatnot while the Zionist Movement works towards getting permission of permanent and massive settlement of Israel.

Doesn't consider the Zionist movement the "final goal" to be Israel and any other location just "temporary" ones ??

 

[wildWolverine]

Originally posted by EdwardTking


There were many parts of America which became comparatively underpopulated in the interval between the natives being struck down by old world disease and the european settlers moving in.

I would say that the "european settlers" had finished moving in by the late 1940's...