The Emergent leaders system

[dunedainjedi]

Or whatever it's call now. Basically, and yes major n00bish question incoming, I was wondering how the traits system works for the non historical leaders in the game. I know(think?) that they can gain traits, but I'm not really sure how, and I can't seem to find anything in the pedia on it.

Also I thought I read somewhere that traits can be upgraded? Which sounds totally awesome.

 

[Tsathoggua]

Or whatever it's call now. Basically, and yes major n00bish question incoming, I was wondering how the traits system works for the non historical leaders in the game. I know(think?) that they can gain traits, but I'm not really sure how, and I can't seem to find anything in the pedia on it.

Also I thought I read somewhere that traits can be upgraded? Which sounds totally awesome.

It's sort of a thematic opposite to "Adaptive".

Instead of chosing to replace the trait with one that suits how you want to play, the game offers you the chance to accept a new trait based on how you *have* played.

You can choose not to accept that trait, but I'm not sure if you can play differently and be offered a new one later.

For example: you play the first 100 or so turns as a total warmonger. Odds are good you'll get an event offering to replace your "Emergent" trait with "Aggressive".

 

[Swinkscalibur]

Wait for 1.4 lots of changes to leaders coming (at least I think its 1.4)

As for now emergent leaders gain traits because of behavior.

here is a post I found from Valk regarding the exact means and chance of being offered a trait

This list is for RifE, but I haven't altered the chances and I don't believe Sephi has either, so it should be valid.


Aggressive
Bronze Working - 3%
Iron Working - 5%
Kill Another Civ - 100%

Arcane
Knowledge of the Ether - 3% - if gained, 5% chance to also gain Summoner
Sorcery - 50% - if gained 5% chance to also gain Summoner
Build Arcane Libralus - 100%

Creative
Festivals - 3%
Drama - 20%

Expansive
Sanitation - 10% - if gained, 5% chance to also gain Ingenuity
Medicine - 20%
Upon Reaching 8 Cities - 20%

Financial
Trade - 10%
Currency - 20% - if gained, 5% chance to also gain Organized
Mathematics - 50% - if gained, 5% chance to also gain Philosophical

Industrious
Construction - 3% - if gained, 5% chance to also gain Expansive
Smelting - 10% - if gained, 5% chance to also gain Aggressive
Engineering - 20% - if gained 5% chance to also gain Expansive

Ingenuity
Start a Golden Age - 50%

Magic Defense
Build 2nd Altar of Luonnotar - 100%

Organized
Code of Laws - 3% - if gained, 5% to also gain Financial
Military Strategy - 20% - if gained, 5% to also gain Aggressive
Build Forbidden Palace - 100%

Philosophical
Writing - 3% - if gained 5% to also gain Creative
Philosophical - 50% - if gained, 5% to also gain Creative
Each Great Person Born - 10%

Raiders
Pillage Improvement - 5%
Raze City - 10%

Spiritual
Priesthood - 3%
Religious Law - 10%
Fanatacism - 20%
Found a Religion - 50%

 

[dunedainjedi]

One more question, it says on the wiki that minor leaders upgrade once and emergent leaders twice. Does that mean emergent leaders can receive two new traits?

 

[shoggi]

One more question, it says on the wiki that minor leaders upgrade once and emergent leaders twice. Does that mean emergent leaders can receive two new traits?

No. Wait for 1.4.

 

[Schwarzbart]

As fare I know if you get Ingenuity or Magic Defense first you can get a second trait in the curent system.

 

[Valkrionn]

One more question, it says on the wiki that minor leaders upgrade once and emergent leaders twice. Does that mean emergent leaders can receive two new traits?

No. Currently, Minor leaders get nothing. Only Emergent gain traits, and only gain one.

Will change in 1.4.

 

[Jabie]

In my recent game, I got offered the Swashbuckler trait. Annoyingly, I had no idea what it did, so took a shot in the dark and grabbed it. From an interface perspective, it might help to add a description of each trait when they are offered to the player. (Of course, with traits still being fluid this could be extra work, unless you can get it do perform some kind of lookup of some kind)

 

[2000AD]

Is there any way to make a dynamic trait, like the dyanmic mutation system?
Break each trait down into 3 ranks (for example Charismatic might be Rank 1 - +1 happy for monument and other building, Rank 2 - +1 happy per city, Rank 3 - -25% XP requirement) then after maybe 150 turns (or whatevers appropriate) the emergent leader gets offered a trait with 4 ranks based on what he's done. For example if he's founded 2 religions, fought a big war and built a few cities he might get offered a trait with 2 ranks of spiritual, 1 rank aggressive and 1 rank expansive. Or make it multiple choice and offer him either that, Spiritual as it is now or one which is rank 1 spirit, rank 2 aggressive and rank 1 expansive.
Also offer the option to decline those choices and then after another 150 turns they get another 3 traits generated but this time each has a 50% chance of having 5 ranks. If they leave it for another 150 turns then all will have 5 ranks.


Another option if breaking down traits into ranks might be to have each emergent leader start with no traits or a rank 1 or 2 trait and then gain them all throughout the game. Each leader would be able to earn a max of 12 points worth of traits where upgrading to a Rank 1 would be 1 point, rank 2 +2 points and rank 3 +3 points, so a standard leader with 2 traits as they are now has 12 points worth.
Have a system like the great person point where as you go through the game you build up points till you fill up and can then buy a trait or upgrade an existing one. Reward certain actions for example if a leader with spiritual 1 founds a new religion then at the next upgrade the upgrade to spiritual 2 might only cost 1 point instead of 2.
All the unique traits the emergent leaders have now could be little 1 point 1 rank only traits, or maybe expanded into a full 3 ranks (or maybe even expand the traits as they are now into 4 ranks, for example aggressive 4 might give combat 2 for free or something). Negative traits could be taken, for example you could take Agnostic which would do as it does now, block access to spiritual but give you an extra point or 2 to spend on your traits.

And I'm going to stop there because I just realised that as I know nothing at all about modding all this could be totally impossible to actually do. Though would something like either of these be a half decent idea for emergent leaders?

 

[Valkrionn]

In my recent game, I got offered the Swashbuckler trait. Annoyingly, I had no idea what it did, so took a shot in the dark and grabbed it. From an interface perspective, it might help to add a description of each trait when they are offered to the player. (Of course, with traits still being fluid this could be extra work, unless you can get it do perform some kind of lookup of some kind)

Will be changing soon anyway; Not worth the work, honestly.

Is there any way to make a dynamic trait, like the dyanmic mutation system?
Break each trait down into 3 ranks (for example Charismatic might be Rank 1 - +1 happy for monument and other building, Rank 2 - +1 happy per city, Rank 3 - -25% XP requirement) then after maybe 150 turns (or whatevers appropriate) the emergent leader gets offered a trait with 4 ranks based on what he's done. For example if he's founded 2 religions, fought a big war and built a few cities he might get offered a trait with 2 ranks of spiritual, 1 rank aggressive and 1 rank expansive. Or make it multiple choice and offer him either that, Spiritual as it is now or one which is rank 1 spirit, rank 2 aggressive and rank 1 expansive.
Also offer the option to decline those choices and then after another 150 turns they get another 3 traits generated but this time each has a 50% chance of having 5 ranks. If they leave it for another 150 turns then all will have 5 ranks.


Another option if breaking down traits into ranks might be to have each emergent leader start with no traits or a rank 1 or 2 trait and then gain them all throughout the game. Each leader would be able to earn a max of 12 points worth of traits where upgrading to a Rank 1 would be 1 point, rank 2 +2 points and rank 3 +3 points, so a standard leader with 2 traits as they are now has 12 points worth.
Have a system like the great person point where as you go through the game you build up points till you fill up and can then buy a trait or upgrade an existing one. Reward certain actions for example if a leader with spiritual 1 founds a new religion then at the next upgrade the upgrade to spiritual 2 might only cost 1 point instead of 2.
All the unique traits the emergent leaders have now could be little 1 point 1 rank only traits, or maybe expanded into a full 3 ranks (or maybe even expand the traits as they are now into 4 ranks, for example aggressive 4 might give combat 2 for free or something). Negative traits could be taken, for example you could take Agnostic which would do as it does now, block access to spiritual but give you an extra point or 2 to spend on your traits.

And I'm going to stop there because I just realised that as I know nothing at all about modding all this could be totally impossible to actually do. Though would something like either of these be a half decent idea for emergent leaders?

One of your ideas is actually fairly close to the mechanic we will be implementing. Won't say which one, or exactly how close it is.

 

[2000AD]

One of your ideas is actually fairly close to the mechanic we will be implementing. Won't say which one, or exactly how close it is.

Intersting ..... *strokes goatee*

I wonder if it's possible to have players able to pick their own portrait in game, as in import their own portraits. Because that combined with the standard being able to choose your name, civ's name and the added emergent leader traits would be pretty close to player created characters.
Or if portraits have to be fixed just stick in a bunch of extra leaders who are pretty much blank slates for players to make their own leader with, they just pick whatever picture they think is coolest. That might make it a hassle for the AI to pick proper characters though.

 

[azzedar]

With reference to game play, Emergent Leaders are leaders which begin the game with a single unique trait which can be leveled up twice by accomplishing leader specific goals.
[...]

urlremoved/rife/wiki/index.php?title=Emergent_Leader
from the rise from erebus wiki.

any chance to get a list of what those upgrades and/or goals to achieve will be? if not before 1.4 is rdy and released itself, than maybe before? to become a bit "hype'd" for it?

 

[Valkrionn]

Seeing as that list is not completely designed yet? No.

 

[azzedar]

too bad

but it wont let you get away so easy... any full-grown ideas on Athel Revus(Slaver) or Reorx Veinhunter(Miner) yet? yes, i like playing dwarfs.

 

[Valkrionn]

No.

Here is an example, however...

• Lorelei
  • Lvl 1 - Free Water Mastery and Water1 to Arcane units.
    • Water Mastery - +1:movement:, Water Walking, +50% on Ocean/Coast, grants Water Mastery to summons.
  • Lvl 2 - Arcane units gain new spell : WaterMorph
    • Water Morph - Grant the unit a new promo : Water Form for 3 turns
    • Water Form - +3 defense, +40% withdrawal, -3 attack +3 water (ice?) attack and water elemental graphic (unit art style)
  • Lvl 3 - Give to all units Water Mastery

 

[azzedar]

woah. nice ideas. like them
thy alot.

 

[odalrick]

• Lorelei
  • Lvl 1 - Free Water Mastery and Water1 to Arcane units.
    • Water Mastery - +1:movement:, Water Walking, +50% on Ocean/Coast, grants Water Mastery to summons.
  • Lvl 2 - Arcane units gain new spell : WaterMorph
    • Water Morph - Grant the unit a new promo : Water Form for 3 turns
    • Water Form - +3 defense, +40% withdrawal, -3 attack +3 water (ice?) attack and water elemental graphic (unit art style)
  • Lvl 3 - Give to all units Water Mastery

The second and third level seems much weaker than the first. Is this a common design decision, somewhat unique to Lorelei or do you not agree with that assessment?

 

[azzedar]

weaker? the first upgrade gives arcane units (although questions remains if to all of them) a unique, and strongly improved version of the stoneskin spell while the last one turns all of your units into water walking horrors of the seas...

i wouldnt dare to call that weaker. unless youre playing on a desert map, but i guess in this case lorelai is rather useless anyway.

 

[odalrick]

weaker? the first upgrade gives arcane units (although questions remains if to all of them) a unique, and strongly improved version of the stoneskin spell while the last one turns all of your units into water walking horrors of the seas...

Part of my point is that the first tier is very strong.

But strongly improved Stoneskin? One extra defence and weakened attack against resistant units. I'll take the two extra First Strikes any time. Mages shouldn't be defending anyway.

And by the time you get level three (assuming it is lateish midgame at the earliest) most of your units should have Water Mastery anyway. Sure it reduces micromanagement some and not all units can be upgraded to from Apprentices, but still.

 

[azzedar]

But strongly improved Stoneskin? One extra defence and weakened attack against resistant units. I'll take the two extra First Strikes any time. Mages shouldn't be defending anyway.

+3 defense, +40% withdrawal, -3 attack +3 water (ice?) attack and water elemental graphic (unit art style)
thats makes +3defense and 40% withdraw to me. better than stoneskin. much better. ure right they shouldnt be in fight anyway ... but should this happen now, they have drastically increased survival chances. cant read any "lasts till next combat" here either.

And by the time you get level three (assuming it is lateish midgame at the earliest) most of your units should have Water Mastery anyway. Sure it reduces micromanagement some and not all units can be upgraded to from Apprentices, but still.

thats means all units that are upgrades from adepts. thats hardly "most of your units" .. basically the third tier gives you more flexibility, as it allows you to strike from the sea with your melee units, archers and whatever else comes to your mind. and dont forget it makes ur ships unbeatable. sea combats have always been a bit rare on erebus - but this tier clearly marks the seas yours.