The Emergent leaders system

[Valkrionn]

The second and third level seems much weaker than the first. Is this a common design decision, somewhat unique to Lorelei or do you not agree with that assessment?

Honestly, it's done on a case-by-case basis. The first level of her trait is fairly strong (particularly as the Amurite Adept is able to upgrade to multiple non-Arcane units), and doesn't particularly need to be much stronger. The spell is a better stoneskin (IMO at least; Break even against units with Cold resistance, but stronger vs all others), and the final trait really just allows those units which can't upgrade from your adepts to attack with the rest of the army.

A different example that DOES get stronger:

• Mordmorgan
  • Lvl 1 : Free Hidden Nationality to Naval units, 20% withdrawal, +1 Defense
  • Lvl 2 : All naval gains hidden (animal) when on kelp, kelp forest, +10% withdrawal, +1 Defense
  • Lvl 3 : All naval unit gains +3 gold on combat, hidden (animal) all the time, +10% withdrawal

 

[azzedar]

id now like to know what the goals could be, u have to achieve for those boni...

 

[Valkrionn]

Different for every leader, most likely, seeing as the things that give you points are set on the trait itself.

Could be certain techs (will be), buildings, units, or can be done via python. Which means absolutely anything.

 

[azzedar]

hehe, you have to love those unclear, nebulous answers, almost like the big publishers. but for today im happy with the answers that have been given.

 

[odalrick]

+3 defense, +40% withdrawal, -3 attack +3 water (ice?) attack and water elemental graphic (unit art style)
thats makes +3defense and 40% withdraw to me. better than stoneskin. much better. ure right they shouldnt be in fight anyway ... but should this happen now, they have drastically increased survival chances. cant read any "lasts till next combat" here either.

No instead you have to recast it every three turns. Stoneskin will last until you need it. The extra point of defence is more than made up by the possibility to benefit from Stonesking when attacking. 40% withdrawal is better than nothing, but I prefer First strikes. Of course there's nothing preventing you from having both.

Short, overstated version: It's defensive in nature, therefore worthless. Yes, the only reason I cast Stoneskin is for the First Stikes.

thats means all units that are upgrades from adepts. thats hardly "most of your units" .. basically the third tier gives you more flexibility, as it allows you to strike from the sea with your melee units, archers and whatever else comes to your mind. and dont forget it makes ur ships unbeatable. sea combats have always been a bit rare on erebus - but this tier clearly marks the seas yours.

Mid-game Mages, Rangers, Champions, Longbowmen and Horse Archers are the most of my units. Most of those are unique units for Amurites by the way. A few Priests for their ability to heal is nice, but not vital. I'll go Octopus Overlords if I don't think Regeneration is enough. Siege is worthless as Amurites, just use insane amounts of Fireballs. Speaking of which, the ultra range Fireballs you should be spitting out will more than establish you as the queen of the sea. 50% combat bonus on ships is nothing more than a middle finger extended in the general direction of Lanun.

The upgrades aren't weak, just nothing special compared to the basic level.

 

[azzedar]

a middle finger extended in the general direction of Lanun

which can be quite amusing on its own



i guess thats what "upgrades" are. general improvements leading further in the direction the basic trait indicates them, but agree that the upgrades are nothing special.
i prefer it that way, than giving more special effects that possibly go into a completly different direction, rendering themselves useless or imbalanced.

 

[Valkrionn]

Correct, the upgrades will always just expand on the general theme.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

What about minor leaders?
Can you at least reveal how they and emergent leaders will work in detail.

I mean, now it is: Major = 2 traits, Minor = 2 traits, Emergent = 1 trait + 1 exchangeable trait.

What will it be in 1.4?

 

[azzedar]

I mean, now it is: Major = 2 traits, Minor = 2 traits, Emergent = 1 trait + 1 exchangeable trait.

What will it be in 1.4?

i doubt it...
At the moment its more like: hey, lets throw in some leaders with funny names and relating pictures and give them some random traits that may, or may not, correlate with the story im about to add tomorrow... or so.
while the term "major" is usual used for the old 'vanilla' ffh leaders and emergent and minor seem to follow a random system. there are emergent leaders with non-unque traits and minors with 1 trait. (although one has to admit most emergent leaders have a unique trait, nojah, Utiruso and Prime Minister Esirce beeing examples thatz dont, coming to my mind at the moment)
... which is, i guess why the new system is about to come :>
and to not end that post without saying anything at least a bit useful: im happy it will come.

as far as i understood in 1.4:
emergent = unique traits that can be improved by doing something special, tech, achievement, whatever
minor = can get additional traits, although none of the 'uniques'
major = doesnt change, unless your name is perpentach

hope im not writing anything wrong here...

 

[Swinkscalibur]

I think its been mentioned enough all over to confirm you are on the right track, the only thing I'll add is that the names (major, minor and emergent) are going the way of the dodo, to be replaced with names that explain the rolls better.

 

[azzedar]

/offtopic

but i loved the dodos
furry, fluffy tame birds resembling a bit penguinshaped, noone can tell me he wouldnt like to have them back.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

My cube (see the avatar) is powered by a steam turbine that runs on the burning feathers of dodo birds. Does that count?

On a serious note, I need to make 3 leaders for my civ (one of each type) and I need to know some sort of template that I am to use. Any help is appretiated.

 

[azzedar]

My cube (see the avatar) is powered by a steam turbine that runs on the burning feathers of dodo birds. Does that count?

On a serious note, I need to make 3 leaders for my civ (one of each type) and I need to know some sort of template that I am to use. Any help is appretiated.

tell us more

 

[PPQ_Purple]

About the leaders them self?
Because I have the lore worked out I just need to know some sort of template to use.

The major leader will get Charismatic and Spiritual, that is set in stone.
The minor one will get Spiritual, but I don't know if I should give him another trait or wait for 1.4. I mean, will 1.4 include some new mechanic I should take into account?

The emergent one I have no idea how it will work since you will be making a new system.

PS. Check my thread from time to time people. A lot of the text is already posted there.

 

[azzedar]

help me with the word template, is it a term of programing or are you looking for art?... cant figure out what you mean, even with the dictionary. sry, my english is many things, but not perfect
btw. will look on your civ in detail tomorrow and give some general feedback.
for 1.4, it depends, if everything else is done its better to release it, if you have to finish other things before youll be probably done when, or short before 1.4 is released anyway. i dont know how far away 1.4 is.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Noun
template (plural templates)

A generic model or pattern from which other objects are based or derived

In other words, I need to know the general patten of how leader traits are assigned.


I have the lore worked out perfectly BTW for each of the 3. I just need those templates to know how much traits to give to each.

 

[shoggi]

Major: 2 standard traits
Minor: 1 standard trait + additional trait gained while playing (what emergents have now)
Emergent: One special trait, upgradeable. I think this was mentioned enough times on the forum, so that I don't spoil anything new here (seeing as valk mentioned it a few posts above). Standard will be 3 levels of traits.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

That is what I was looking for.
So I need to make up an extra special unique trait for my emergent leader. I will probably stick with Spiritual for the minor one.
But I have plans for that one already...

Thanks for the info shoggi.

 

[Valkrionn]

What about minor leaders?
Can you at least reveal how they and emergent leaders will work in detail.

I mean, now it is: Major = 2 traits, Minor = 2 traits, Emergent = 1 trait + 1 exchangeable trait.

What will it be in 1.4?

What Shoggi said.

• Major = Historical = Same as now.
  • Traits rebalanced, some leader traits change, no Historical leaders duplicate the same trait combination.
• Minor = Important = Current Emergent mechanic, vastly improved.
  • Traits gained based on a counter, one for each trait.
  • Counters viewable in a new screen.
  • Start with one trait (standard, same pool as Historical), may gain new traits.
  • Points for each trait gained from various actions: Teching, Building, War, Peace, Etc.
  • Once you have a certain amount of points in a trait, you gain the trait. Max of three traits at one time.
  • Once you have 3 traits, you can still gain new traits... But you will lose an old trait. New trait must have (Old Trait Counter * 125%) in order to replace the old trait.
  • May or may not have an extra pool of traits that are not available to Historical, but still 'generic' enough for Important.
• Emergent = Emergent = Leveled Traits
  • Traits level up, points gained (and viewed) in the same way as Important leaders do.
  • Leveled traits are additive (+10% in trait 1 + 10% in trait 2 = 20% total)
  • Standard will be 3 levels, start with level 1. Nothing I'm aware of that would limit it to just that amount, however.
• General Trait Mechanics
  • Massive amounts of new tags. Basically, anything a civic can do, a trait can do.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

So an emergent leader starts with absolutely no traits at all and goes from there?

Or does he/she/it/they start with the lvl1 of the unique trait and goes from there?