The European Project: the future of the EU.

[r16]

tsk tsk , aren't you supposed to be anti-Republic ? lSlL as a means to create a Kurdish Nation State because Athens is always occupied somehow . Genocide it isn't , 1926 or so average suppression of a revolt in accord with the times , the excesses of 1937 or so depends on the assurance that Kemal will be killed if alcohol doesn't kill him first , because there is a war coming and this mysterious force should be following whatever the Republic is telling , irregardless whatever tinpot despot might be installed at the helm . The second marshall of the Republic is rated to be pro-ltalian , Bayar should fall to the orbit of Anglosaxons because while lnönü is rated Berlin's guy , except the Japanese think he is the reddest Communist . Plus the destruction heaped on Tunceli , satisfies the "future democrats" greatly , Alevi hate for those who will want to become Arabs , payment for their assistance to the Goverment in suppression of the Kurds who rose for lslam on the surface but actually because they were paid a little gold so that the British could secure the oil in Northern lraq . And covered by the thing that the area refused to pay taxes and refused conscription in the area and they attacked defenceless villages where the men had joined Kemal's thing in 1920-22 . All the same they just sat on their backsides , watching the big picture change suddenly . lnstead of fighting ltaly , they tried to join the Nazi steamroller in crushing Communism and had to be content in the crushing of the Nazi steamroller , however funny people might find the claim .

and the final one ... Always used as a justification by the so called "Political lslam" it actually originates from the West . Considering Superman was supposedly created to satisfy its creators' inferiority complex , Jews and all that , you are claiming some Jew was in charge . ı don't know why the Man of Steel didn't end up in some witch hunt of proper portions either ...

 

[Kyriakos]

I mean, shouldn't be an issue if he was a jew who converted to Islam; after all the rest there are christians who did as much

(ok ok, I will stop now)

 

[Samson]

Croatia police ‘blocked’ MEPs investigating treatment of refugees

Four Italian politicians have accused Croatian police of trying to prevent them from accessing an area on the border with Bosnia and Herzegovina over the weekend, amid concern over the treatment of refugees in the region.
The legislators, all Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) from Italy’s Democratic Party (PD), had intended to reach the area between Croatia, an EU member state, and Bosnia, to investigate the conditions faced by asylum seekers there.
Piero Bartolo, Brando Benifei, Pierfrancesco Majorino, and Alessandra Moretti say they were refused access to the border point on Saturday.
According to reports citing Benifei, the MEPs were prevented from reaching the border after “dozens” of Croatian police set-up a “human barrier” on the road leading to the checkpoint.
“The Croatian police were waiting for us and set up a barrier,” Benifei said in a video recorded at the scene, published online by Italy’s Avvenire newspaper.
“We decided to walk through but dozens of threateningly armed policemen formed a human barrier preventing us from passing.”​

 

[Kyriakos]

They probably needed time to hide the Ustase insignia

 

[Samson]

They probably needed time to hide the Ustase insignia

My suspicion is that they need to hide treatment of refugees that would make the Ustase proud.

 

[innonimatu]

My suspicion is that they need to hide treatment of refugees that would make the Ustase proud.

The Ustase would have cut their throats and collected their blood in a vat for some mysterious reason related to nazi-inspired neopagan rites... it was one of their things.

The civilized thing to do is to offer these "refugees" free transpiration back to whence they came as an option to remaining where they are and risking freezing to death. Provided they give an honest account about where they came from. And if they refused it's their choice to remain encamped in the middle of nowhere. Borders are not a free for all and the sob stories about refugees are old by now. Croatia has no obligation to take in Kashmir refugees, India and Pakistan have that obligation. If India or Pakistan are not safe for them (and only so can the claim refugee status) then every indian or pakistani could be a refugee in Europe, there are just nearly two billion of them.

 

[Kyriakos]

Indeed there is a serious issue with people from very much not Syria presenting themselves as relevant (or even real) refugees to Europe. I have zero issue with accepting people from Syria, btw (unless it is discovered they are war criminals, which would be only a tiny minority in the first place). But it's not the same with Pakistan/Bangladesh/Afganistan, and some are trafficked for very criminal reasons.
That said, the Eu countries which just refuse any refugee who is muslim, should have been sanctioned - it won't happen, of course.

 

[Samson]

Indeed there is a serious issue with people from very much not Syria presenting themselves as relevant (or even real) refugees to Europe. I have zero issue with accepting people from Syria, btw (unless it is discovered they are war criminals, which would be only a tiny minority in the first place). But it's not the same with Pakistan/Bangladesh/Afganistan, and some are trafficked for very criminal reasons.
That said, the Eu countries which just refuse any refugee who is muslim, should have been sanctioned - it won't happen, of course.

What I do not get is that if you are starving because the rains failed you are a refugee. If you are starving because the economy failed, or because one side or other of the world has been bombing your country back to the stone age for the last 4 decades, you are an economic migrant.

 

[Kyriakos]

What I do not get is that if you are starving because the rains failed you are a refugee. If you are starving because the economy failed, or because one side or other of the world has been bombing your country back to the stone age for the last 4 decades, you are an economic migrant.

They could have stayed in Turkey; they aren't there due to a war created by the west
Anyway, for Greece specifically it is not a good idea to accept massive numbers of people form Pakistan, because that country is formally allied to crazy Turkey ^_^
Also, integration of pakistanis has certainly failed in Greece; they just form ghettos in Athens, and this will get worse with more. On the other hand, integration of middle eastern people is working very well here and has been for decades (syrians, egyptians, palestinians, jordanians, lebanese etc; most of them come for studies and then have their own white collar work in the first place)

 

[EnglishEdward]

@Samson

Refugees are supposed to be people seeking refuge, because they are persecuted in their own country.

Being bombed is of course a form of persecution, but if drought means the rains fails, well that is not persecution.

 

[Samson]

@Samson

Refugees are supposed to be people seeking refuge, because they are persecuted in their own country.

Being bombed is of course a form of persecution, but if drought means the rains fails, well that is not persecution.

Legally you are right, I had to look it up:

The lack of food, water, education, health care and a livelihood would not ordinarily and by themselves sustain a refugee claim under the 1951 Convention.

Also, most do stay in Turkey:

 

[Kyriakos]

You can also ask yourself why Turkey allows them to enter and then move through all of Asia Minor to get near to Europe.
Or you can recall the farce with the attempt to have organized and armed groups of "refugees" storm the Greek-Turkish border last year
It's not for humanitarian reasons; if they were humanitarian they would start with their own population suffering severe rights violations by the state.

 

[innonimatu]

Considering the health, economic and especially the social/political crisis brewing in Europe now, it's complete fantasy to think it can drop border control and let more "refugees" enter. Doing what Merkel tried to do some years ago would make sure that when the thing does blow up it'll be the modern freikorps taking over power.

Even the stupid left (you know those parties...) has mostly shut up about the refugees thing. But some especially suicidal ones just can't think ahead... I suppose those MEP are part of it.

 

[Verbose]

Considering the health, economic and especially the social/political crisis brewing in Europe now, it's complete fantasy to think it can drop border control and let more "refugees" enter. Doing what Merkel tried to do some years ago would make sure that when the thing does blow up it'll be the modern freikorps taking over power.
Even the stupid left (you know those parties...) has mostly shut up about the refugees thing. But some especially suicidal ones just can't think ahead... I suppose those MEP are part of it.

Don't worry, no one really takes in refugees in the EU these days. If done, all stay is only temporary.

As was pointed out back in 2015 when a few countries solved the acute problem of large numbers of refugees, there would have to be a working system in place through an EU-wide agreement on how to distribute the load of mass migration – or else this would all end as a race to the bottom to not be left holding the bucket, and no one taking in refugees.

And what do you know, it turned out exactly like that. At the insistence of the member states that have stonewalled having to show any kind of solidarity in handling this to make it work. Since any kind of EU-wide agreement to cooperate on this is unworkable (it would make it a highly manageable issue), EU member states have instead has been forced to simply not take in refugees in any considerable number, and limit stay.

And the ones that was never going to take any refugees anyway now claim victory and vindication they were right all along, since the ones that did take all the refugees has been forced to decide that they cannot on their own solve the ills of the world, they need cooperation and solidarity to try. Not that they didn't already know that.

And in the mean time people fleeing can live and die as they please.

The EU as a whole granted some kind of humanitarian protection to 300 000 people in 2019 (latest updated figures). It's about 1:1500 EU citizens. On any kind of aggregate EU level, this is a trivial matter. Nationally, and locally, given how this has worked out, it is not.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Well David Cameron volunteered us for 20,000 Syrian refugees in 2015.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34171148

UK to accept 20,000 refugees from Syria by 2020

so I don't think that the UK was the culprit.

 

[Samson]

Well David Cameron volunteered us for 20,000 Syrian refugees in 2015.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34171148



so I don't think that the UK was the culprit.

You saw my image above, number of syrian refugees = 6.6 million. Taking 1 out of every 330 of them does not absolve us of responsibility.

 

[EnglishEdward]

The UK is not responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world.

For what it is worth, I think that 20,000 was David Cameron's opening offer, and that he
would probably have accepted a larger allocation if the EU had otherwise agreed quotas.

 

[Verbose]

The UK is not responsible for everything that goes wrong in the world.

For what it is worth, I think that 20,000 was David Cameron's opening offer, and that he
would probably have accepted a larger allocation if the EU had otherwise agreed quotas.

Yes, well, IF in 2015 a system had been implemented to manage the Syrian refugees by even distribution, based in gen pop size between member states, then the UK probably would have been asked to take something like 130 000.

Otoh at the time 20 000 for a country the UK's size corresponded to 2% of the actual number of Syrian refugees Sweden took in in 2015: 1:50.

Which kind of highlights why countries that did the heavy lifting in 2015 insisted this could not be solved simply by the countries refusing to help insisting the countries that did do something just continue like that, so that they in turn could go on just stone-walling having to help out in taking in refugees.

But then there was also this secondary discussion about free movement in the EU whereby hypothetically once inside refugees might start moving around – so that was brought up as a kind of secondary line in arguing against anyone taking in any refugees at all (since the damn pests are mobile anyway... ).

And so in the end everyone went for the race to the bottom, and screw refugees generally.

 

[Kyriakos]

The real tragedy is that no more polish people can immigrate to the UK

 

[GinandTonic]

Well David Cameron volunteered us for 20,000 Syrian refugees in 2015.

You saw my image above, number of syrian refugees = 6.6 million. Taking 1 out of every 330 of them does not absolve us of responsibility.

But it does give me a job teaching the buggers, so, swings and roundabouts.

The real tragedy is that no more polish people can immigrate to the UK

I was discussing this with a racist brexiteer. They've got rid of the white semi-lapsed Christian migrant labour. The next lot of migrant labour will be less white and less Christian. She looked like she had swallowed a wasp.