The Final Analysis?

[elthrasher]

If the patch was a result of Firaxis listening to the fans, then I think they need a visit at the otolaryngologyst, stat. One of the main complaint people had with Civ V, was crashing. And what does the patch do? Even more people have crashes, after it.

Well, that means they didn't do enough testing (again). It's not as though they were like "let's make the game crash more often!"

I think it's clear Firaxis did listen to the player base in crafting this patch. Who told them to nerf horsemen? We did! I actually wish they'd listened a little less and took a step back to really plan this stuff instead of just doing a knee-jerk nerf of everything anyone said was good.

If it were my project, I'd focus on bug fixes, stability and performance and let the rebalancing ideas percolate a little longer, then try to do a really well thought-out and well-executed release designed to make the game better balanced and more fun (like oh, I dunno, maybe put something remotely interesting at the upper end of the tech tree for those of us who aren't doing a space win). And most importantly, I would tell everybody that this was my plan so people would know what to expect.

And then you test the crap out of any patch that comes out. But probably there simply aren't resources for that. The test budget gets shafted on nearly every IT project.

 

[blind biker]

I hate you. I reinstalled it on my machine to make sure. I had already gone back to Civ IV, you do realise that? Now, now... Argh...
I could swear it did show a replay. Unfortunately, it doesn't work on my current computer (the replay - the game runs fine except that). I blame DirectX 6. I just got 2 black windows at the end of the game.

Yeah. I don't think Civ II saved the necessary info for the replay It was a good game, and had the greatest advisors! Hopefully Civ VI will have those advisors, back, they're pure gold.

 

[Dale]

More handwaving from Civ V fans. Look, your dear game is a turd, try to cope with that.

Oh we do cope. We just play the game in a way that is fun for us.

And I also agree with the above poster, you shouldn't hold so much cred in internet polls.

 

[blind biker]

And then you test the crap out of any patch that comes out. But probably there simply aren't resources for that. The test budget gets shafted on nearly every IT project.

When I was working for Nokia (until some 4 years ago), their testing budget was enormous. There were many testers, as well as lots and lots of automated testing equipment. They still managed to slip a bug or two into the released phone, but quashed most of the boo-boos. The reason for the hypertrophic testing apparatus and budget is, Nokia figures that they will sell hundreds of thousands of phones, so it better be good.

A bit like Civ V. Oh....

 

[Dale]

The test budget gets shafted on nearly every IT project.

As an IT Project Manager (currently) this is most definitely the truth.

 

[blind biker]

And I also agree with the above poster, you shouldn't hold so much cred in internet polls.

Of course, you would say that. Maybe it's true: after all, many of those whom Civ V was crashing, aren't playing it anymore and aren't on this forum, either. So perhaps the percentage is WAY higher than 57% But I wanted to be gallant and not hurt the feelings of Civ V fans too much.

 

[ds61514]

Of course, you would say that. Maybe it's true: after all, many of those whom Civ V was crashing, aren't playing it anymore and aren't on this forum, either. So perhaps the percentage is WAY higher than 57% But I wanted to be gallant and not hurt the feelings of Civ V fans too much.

Forget about online polls...has the equivalent of the "Harkonnen memory patch" been released for Civ 5?

If not, then I can guess which one is more stable .

 

[Dale]

Of course, you would say that. Maybe it's true: after all, many of those whom Civ V was crashing, aren't playing it anymore and aren't on this forum, either. So perhaps the percentage is WAY higher than 57% But I wanted to be gallant and not hurt the feelings of Civ V fans too much.

No go ahead, stake your credibility on that poll.

Just consider if that poll is also reflective of the hundreds of thousands of other people who don't even know what CFC is, or even care?

EDIT: WOOOOOOOOOOW! You even got 126 people out of the million Civ 5 owners to vote! I bet that's representative. Are you now a political pollster in your RL job now that you've left Nokia?

 

[Ahriman]

The title of the poll was "Is Civ V still crashing, for you?"

Why would anyone for whom the game didn't crash even click on the thread?

Also, have you stopped beating your wife yet?

 

[blind biker]

Also, have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Well played.

 

[Dralix]

More handwaving

No. Internet forum polls lack a whole lot of things that make Gallup, and other polls stastically sound. Not to mention that a poll isn't the proper way to determine if the game crashes more or less post patch.

 

[blind biker]

EDIT: WOOOOOOOOOOW! You even got 126 people out of the million Civ 5 owners to vote! I bet that's representative. Are you now a political pollster in your RL job now that you've left Nokia?

For a confidence level of 95%, a sample size of 126 out of a population of 1.000.000 gives a confidence interval of +/- 8.7% So the results are not far off. I know, you don't understand statistics, but one day you will, you'll see.
Moderator Action: You are not allowed to flame other members.

 

[elthrasher]

When I was working for Nokia (until some 4 years ago), their testing budget was enormous. There were many testers, as well as lots and lots of automated testing equipment. They still managed to slip a bug or two into the released phone, but quashed most of the boo-boos. The reason for the hypertrophic testing apparatus and budget is, Nokia figures that they will sell hundreds of thousands of phones, so it better be good.

A bit like Civ V. Oh....

Different industry, different standards. Isn't Nokia responsible for like 98% of the GNP of Finland? (kidding)

The cell phone market is highly competitive. The TBS one, not so much. For crying out loud, most of the people who give up on Civ V go back and play Civ IV, a product by the same company!

I'm not attempting to make excuses. Firaxis shouldn't have shafted the testing budget and they shouldn't have released the game if it wasn't 100% finished. Video games get delayed releases all the time. Do the fans clamor "Please, give us the junky game you don't think is worth releasing yet!!!" No. They recognize that it's better to wait for the finished game. The smart ones do anyway.

All I'm saying is that short-changing the test budget is pretty much an industry standard. No, you can't do that if you are Nokia because Samsung will kill you. But for smaller shops, it happens all the time. Just cross your fingers and hope the developers somehow got it right the first time (a miracle I have seen occur once in a twelve year career).

 

[lietkynes]

How about 57%? Is that large enough?



Tell us honestly, what is the largest map you played? Did you play it till the end?

I don't even know why you have to ask me to answer "honestly", why would I want to lie ? Lol. Anyway to answer your question I play standard and large maps and I have finished most of my games to the end.

The poll you posted is interesting, as I said I never had a single crash in my 200+ hours playing and so I was not even aware that there was a crashing problem. Of course it is not representative and the real percentage is probably much lower, still it's large enough to be a serious problem I think.

 

[Ahriman]

Well played.

Since it seems you need the reference explained to you (from the OJ trial), its a simple demonstration of the fact that when you ask an unfair or biased question, the answer is tainted.

For a confidence level of 95%, a sample size of 126 out of a population of 1.000.000 gives a confidence interval of +/- 8.7% So the results are not far off. I know, you don't understand statistics, but one day you will, you'll see.

You understand that to make statistically correct confidence intervals, your sample must be random, right?
And that if you have a severely biased sample, statistical analysis is totally meaningless?

And that taunting people for not understanding statistics when you demonstrate your own ignorance just makes you look ridiculous? Moderator Action: ...and you are not allowed to flame back.

 

[blind biker]

Since it seems you need the reference explained to you (from the OJ trial), its a simple demonstration of the fact that when you ask an unfair or biased question, the answer is tainted.



You understand that to make statistically correct confidence intervals, your sample must be random, right?
And that if you have a severely biased sample, statistical analysis is totally meaningless?

And that taunting people for not understanding statistics when you demonstrate your own ignorance just makes you look ridiculous?

Yes, it is biased, as I admitted a few posts above. I'll cite myself: "many of those whom Civ V was crashing, aren't playing it anymore and aren't on this forum, either. So perhaps the percentage is WAY higher than 57%"

 

[blind biker]

Since it seems you need the reference explained to you (from the OJ trial), its a simple demonstration of the fact that when you ask an unfair or biased question, the answer is tainted.

Actually, I know very well the reference. I said "well played", didn't I?

 

[blind biker]

I think we all went a bit off topic. Let's resume talking about the subject at hand: why Civ V sucks (except for the crashing).

 

[Krill]

It's the little things like this that made me conclude that Sullla only wanted BtS v2, and that anything else would not be good enough.

Unfortunately, the quote you've used there to support your argument is a strawman. MIght be a good idea to, you know, quote from the source

 

[civ-wrecked]

For a confidence level of 95%, a sample size of 126 out of a population of 1.000.000 gives a confidence interval of +/- 8.7% So the results are not far off. I know, you don't understand statistics, but one day you will, you'll see.

The sample has to be random for what you said to be true. That's what the other people tried to point out that the "CF poll takers" probably have a negative bias, given the thread title.
On the other hand, those who have already given up on the game probably don't want to hang around any of the Civ fans web sites to learn new tricks how to play the game better. That means the group of participants in CF probably have a positive bias, especially since a fair number of beta testers were selected from the Civ sites.

Regarding the beta testers, their participation in any threads/polls tend to have a direct conflict of interest. CivFanatics site is actually pretty good though and I really appreciate that all ideas/criticism were well taken and not derided upon. At the other site which I joined years before joining CF, one of the beta testers was really obnoxious against any criticism. I stopped visiting it.