The first 100 turns.

[TinkerJohn]

What do you do in those first 100 turns to do your best in games?

As a new player to FFH, the strategy and techs that do the best (Especially in MP!) are not as clear in regular Civ4. The techs in FFH are much more streamlined, and do not need to be as spread out. There are also more... shall we say... less them competitive tech lines.

With that in mind, what do you do in the first 50, or 100 turns to succeed the best? What techs do you go for and what build order do you use?

For Example...
I've been trying different things with the Lanum to make them work effectively enough to be competitive with the assumption that around 100-120 someone with a lot of warriors / axemen will be sniffing around my borders for prey.
Techs : Fishing (for the pirate coves / high coast yields), Chants / Myst / Octopus / Mind Stapling.
Reasons: Fishing starts me off with high food / money tiles right away. Octopus and Mind Stapling give Lunatics and Drowned, Lunatics having 6 Strength and can use metals. OO gives a couple solid military units once you also build their temple / asylum.
THE PROBLEM: In the games I've played, my production is awful. Its worse then awful. Even my main city is terrible and I can't crank out enough to feel competitive with say a nearby blood crazed dwarven throng who believe (Incorrectly!) that pirate ships have been robbing their coasts for too long. I cannot manage enough extra to build the Temple / Asylum and workers for port sacrifice, and settlers. What am I doing wrong?

When I go mining instead after Fishing, I have to go through Crafting and then Mining, which leaves me with no good military (three techs). It also takes a while for mining during which I have no good military units and no solid research / GPP to produce.

So what is your favorite race, and what is your favorite start style?

 

[nossr50]

I wish the designers would have more time to focus on the first 100 turns of the game, they are often spent just sitting there building a worker for 10-20 turns, a few warriors, maybe a settler, while researching bronze working for the next 70 turns or something similar. The first 100 turns IMO are me repeatedly pressing END TURN.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Thats why I typically use Advanced Starts.

 

[nossr50]

Thats why I typically use Advanced Starts.

Don't even know how to use it

 

[TinkerJohn]

What I've seen a couple times in MP and more advanced single player though is that one group goes right for axemen, then shows up at your doorstep with a stack that you can't beat with your merchant society.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Thats why I stick to single player.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I play Lanun sometimes too.

Standard tech path for me, as the Lanun, is:

Agriculture
Ancient Chants
Education
Exploration
Fishing
Crafting
Mining
Bronze Working

Takes about a hundred turns, and sets me up for:

Philosophy
Knowledge of the Ether
Way of the Wicked
Corruption of the Spirit (Build an army as these four techs research, and convert a neighbor with my starting savant)
Infernal Pact (declare war on my converted neighbor a turn before this finishes)

And then the game as the Lanun is over.

Standard opening build order is something like Warriorx2, Worker, Warriorx2, Settler, Worker.

What resources I have can change this of course. Animal Husbandry can be taken before Crafting for certain resources, same for Calendar. If I need both, Calendar usually comes first. I'll build more warriors if I have lots of happy resources, as my city can grow to the slackened caps as they build.

Anyway, Education first is a big deal, especially if you're Hannah. Those cottages, and their doubled growth rate in FFH, really help speed you through whatever else your next aim is. A couple seafood resources and pirate coves can't compare to that. Unless of course you start by 3 seafoods early, then by all means, fishing first.

And if you aren't an infernal fanboy like me, your tech path will be completely different after BW.

 

[TinkerJohn]

Thanks for the Reply Monkey thats exactly what I was looking for.

 

[xienwolf]

I would assume that a decent strategy would be to trade your Pearl resources to your neighbors, even if you have to trade your last one. They know that it is impossible to get that resource without you giving it to them, so keep them happy early in the game when the resource makes a large difference for them. Because that is when you are weak and vulnerable.

While you are placating the masses, get yourself as well suited for cash as possible and then head for Deception, found Esus and use slaves to compensate for your low production.

Complete guess though, I haven't done much MP, and haven't touched the Council of Esus yet. Only played the Lanun twice actually.... I need more free time

 

[Monkeyfinger]

xienwolf's pearl thing is a good idea if you can find enough of them to trade around so freely.

That rarely happens to me though, so don't think you're doing something wrong if you simply don't have enough pearls to do that.

 

[Eldric IV]

My first 100 turns strategy is simple because I suck at Civ.

I research whatever food tech I need right out the gate based on the resources at my capital (agriculture/animal husbandry) and then Crafting -> Mining -> Bronze Working.

----

Then I grab Calendar if I have any of those resources. Then I muddle about, completely ignoring the Recon, Archery, Arcane, and Divine tech trees unless I need one for some reason (like founding Ashen Vale in my last game for the happiness).

 

[it-ogo]

These first turns are very fast in single...

 

[Turinturambar]

I almost always go for agriculture first, then whatever tech allows me to utilize commerce resources in my fat cross, then the beeline to writing for the great sage.

 

[Caradoc]

I spew out several Scouts and go hunting for huts, which gives me something to do while my economy gets going.

 

[TinkerJohn]

The Rule of City Thumb.
I find focus on city use is VERY important for both a successful and satisfying game. Next game you play try this out. Having a dedicated unit city allows you to focus your other cities on grand strategies without worrying about needing troops when its already too late.
Cities and their first 4 tiles.
First City (capital): First 2 tiles food, then production, then cottages. This city will hit happiness cap fairly early and will be swapped to producing settlers / workers. Once you get done with expansion you can either swap this city to specialist economy, a second production focusing on wonders, or as pure economy.
Second City: Food / Production / Production+++ (repeat)
This is your workhorse city. All empires need a city that can crank out the latest greatest units, and this is that city. Focus ONLY on units and production in this city, and units take priority. Basically while you run your game when you found a new city, plan a war, or go exploring, you should have enough units coming out of this city that you do not need to pause for it. Having a supply of warriors, axe-men, or archmages already coming out of the factory is far superior to trying to squeeze production out of ALL your cities when you get desperate. Don't worry if the city is bare bones as far as buildings go, this city is for production.
Third / Fourth City: Food / Economy / Production / Economy+++
Basically your next 2-4 Cities can focus on building up either a specialist economy or cottage economy (or a mix). The production tile as third is important because it allows you to build a library or elder's shack to % increase your econ.

 

[daladinn]

for the lanun ...

my order of operations is typically very similar to what your talking of.

1- fishing. its such a needed tech.
2- sailing. this offers the lighthouse which can make or break the lanun.
3- now i head for OO.
4- mercenaries they are the lifeblood for me.
5- ship side of arcane barges and the black wind
6- arcane side of the arcane barges.

one of the MOST important things for the lanun is pirate cove placement. if spamming is available DO IT. as OO you have the only real water walking troops. with the black wind most boats are speed bumps.

any war where you are safe at home and can raid on your terms can not be lost.

 

[Caradoc]

The Rule of City Thumb.
<snip>

A logical progression, and close to what I use. My first city often ends up being a GP farm. Once my religion comes in, that will be my economic powerhouse and another one with good production will be dedicated to building wonders.

As to units, it may be worthwhile to have a second city take over for Recon. I will probably not build all that many recon units, but I will need to divert production to build the required buildings. And if I think I will be getting Great Prophets, then my religious city with the Altar should crank out the Disciples (which are again less numerous than the melee/ranged/mage units that make up the bulk of my army)

 

[slowcar]

i mostly play SP or cooperative on immortal or deity. favorite is tasunke.
depending on my surroundings i have these targets:
(starting with agriculture)
mining (if unforested hills, gems or gold)
education (city states is my favorite civic, especially when rushing)
festivals (markets are huge, especially with city states)
mysticism (boost science with sage, early GP)

my first target is to get 2 warriors upped to shock2 with barbarians and go after my neighbour before he is able to get hunters.
if you spend the captured money wisely you should be able to get bronze working and warfare, allowing your high-ep units to upgrade to cityraider axemen. takes a long time until these can be stopped by anything.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

It's an advanced mod because it is complicated. It's nearly as quick as regular... IF you know what you're doing. FFH really punishes those that play on autopilot mode and don't think through what they are doing AND WHY. It's not for everyone.

Here's a starter - what military force do you want to achieve to crush your enemy eventually, and how are you going to lightbulb your way towards it. Don't think about anything else.

 

[Darkheart]

Yeah Sylvanllewelyn is right, you need to specialise, choose one or two paths that will enhance your strengths, not subsidise your weakness.

There's no future techs in FFH, simply because most games never go that far. The game may start slow but at top end it gets really fast. It's a different game balance.

Unfortunately the race you picked is notoriously weak for production...there's not many resources in the sea, and there's not much benefit to lanun for going down the metal path. Which is why Daladin says mercenaries. God-king helps but Bannor race or Dwarves are better for Duking it with melee, as both of those civs benefit from pumping the metal line.

If you're worried about an early axe rush, use combat 3, shock 2 and defensive, fortify in a 40 or 60% capital. 3 warriors could hold them all day, certainly until city-attack appears and that needs philosophy which is a lot harder to rush.

FFH2 is a really great game, designed by gamers, with the combined input of many more. It's really worth spending the time to learn. It's just got many more options that's all.

Good luck