The First and Second Balkan war's
- Thread starter Reno
- Start date
Orthodox Warior
Chieftain
Hello, I'd saw that macedonian are bulgarian.I can understand macedonian because this is a bulgarian dialect form
You are wrong. Macedonians are separate ethnic group.
I understand many Slav languages but you don't see me claiming they are Serbian dialects.
You should write some stronger proof.
You are wrong. Macedonians are separate ethnic group.
I understand many Slav languages but you don't see me claiming they are Serbian dialects.
You should write some stronger proof.
I question is not if you understand them.Its that this is IN FACT a bulgarian dialect.
My 2 cents about Macedonia:
1. First and foremost if we have a really big bunch of people claiming to be a seperate nation, they are a seperate nation. So, there is a Macedonian nation
2. A few words are not enough for a seperate language(the same goes for teh so called differen serbian, montrenegrian, croatian bosnian and other probably sooner to appear languages - off topic). Other examples =- Austrian?!?!? Brazilian, American, Mexican - you got the point. Itis Bulgarian, and only political reasons
3. The history of this state and nation starts some 130 years ago - a part of the ottomanempire mainly inhibited with Bulgarians was left out and stayed in the Empire, and after the Balkan Wars became a part of Yogoslavia. During these 130 years the people, inhibiting the land, recognized themselves as a part of a new nation. The story is similar for lots of other states- people with the samelanguage and traditions were seperated by time and space. It just happened not long ago , so a few remember their Bulgarian grand-parents,a nd few don't want to. There are cases when a 2 brothers seperate and the yonger, staying in Macedonia grew to be a Macedonian, and the other one going to Bulgaria stayed Bulgarian. Still they have the same mother and father. But that's how nations are born.
PS. By the way , if there was a kind of South Slavonik Bismark, there might have been a large Slaviania from Zagreb to Varna
4. I don't understand Greece and the problem with name. This region hase been called Macedonia since time unknown, so the poeple there were always called Macedonians, living in Macedonia. Any other name will be pathetic.
5. I am sure that everyone except Macedonians and Serbs will agree with me. Greegks might find point 4 hard to swallow
1. First and foremost if we have a really big bunch of people claiming to be a seperate nation, they are a seperate nation. So, there is a Macedonian nation
2. A few words are not enough for a seperate language(the same goes for teh so called differen serbian, montrenegrian, croatian bosnian and other probably sooner to appear languages - off topic). Other examples =- Austrian?!?!? Brazilian, American, Mexican - you got the point. Itis Bulgarian, and only political reasons
3. The history of this state and nation starts some 130 years ago - a part of the ottomanempire mainly inhibited with Bulgarians was left out and stayed in the Empire, and after the Balkan Wars became a part of Yogoslavia. During these 130 years the people, inhibiting the land, recognized themselves as a part of a new nation. The story is similar for lots of other states- people with the samelanguage and traditions were seperated by time and space. It just happened not long ago , so a few remember their Bulgarian grand-parents,a nd few don't want to. There are cases when a 2 brothers seperate and the yonger, staying in Macedonia grew to be a Macedonian, and the other one going to Bulgaria stayed Bulgarian. Still they have the same mother and father. But that's how nations are born.
PS. By the way , if there was a kind of South Slavonik Bismark, there might have been a large Slaviania from Zagreb to Varna
4. I don't understand Greece and the problem with name. This region hase been called Macedonia since time unknown, so the poeple there were always called Macedonians, living in Macedonia. Any other name will be pathetic.
5. I am sure that everyone except Macedonians and Serbs will agree with me. Greegks might find point 4 hard to swallow
So . . . how 'bout them First and Second Balkan Wars, huh?
Umm . . . what influence did they have on the Great War?
Umm . . . what influence did they have on the Great War?
They were a prelude to the Great war. They also influenced what countries joined it, for example Bulgaria wanted to take back what it lost in the second balkan war.
Also, Greece joined late, with the allies, mostly out of fear that if it stayed neutral the great powers would re-organise the balkans against its interests.
Also, Greece joined late, with the allies, mostly out of fear that if it stayed neutral the great powers would re-organise the balkans against its interests.
I was really wondering how they affected the event that provided the spark. Was Austria's designs on Serbia affected by the previous wars?
it does seem a bit petty really, so what if theres one country that uses a name for somewhere in their country or their whole country that happens to be a name in another country, i mean if we went along that train of thought we would be having arguements with the americans, canadians and australians all the time
Well it is an issue that has gone out of control. Originally there probably was the possibility to name Macedonia as "slav Macedonia", but that chance was lost. However the issue is not just the name, but the claim that slavic macedonians are descended from ancient macedonians. This is historically wrong since they are slavs who came to the region in the 7th century AD, and the old macedonian kingdom only ever included a small part of their country.
Anyway i hope that the name issue will be solved in the near future, with one way or another..
Anyway i hope that the name issue will be solved in the near future, with one way or another..
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
If FYROM renounced this claim, Greece would let them change their name to 'Macedonia' ?
I somehow doubt that.
And I don't really see what the big deal is.. If the Czech republic changed their name to "Silesia" for some reason, even though most of Silesia is in Poland, I don't think I'd really care. Polish politicians might, I guess.. Who knows. People are stupid.
Im pretty sure that if they made it clear that they have no link to ancient Macedonia, the name issue could be a lot easier to solve.
As things stand there were even political parties in Fyr Macedonia claiming that they should "liberate" greek Macedonia, and naming Thessalonike as their capital
As things stand there were even political parties in Fyr Macedonia claiming that they should "liberate" greek Macedonia, and naming Thessalonike as their capital
Except the plitical influence, already mentioned, these wars war observed by officers of most of the great powers and some conclusions have been made about how will the future war look like. Together with the Russo-Japense war, Italo-Ottoman war the Balcan wars were analised by military experts from many major countries and many conclusions have been made. It lead to the use of deffence equipment such as the helmets and it discovered the new way of deffence- the treanches.
Razvigoreca
Chieftain
Tctcttc You are only looking the years after The Balkans War.But before that for the period between 800 - 1018 and 1200 - 1370 Macedonia used to be part of Bulgaria and even for several years (100x-1018) the Bulgarian capital was Ochrid (Macedonia). The Macedonian State was artifically created by the Serbs when they realised that Yugoslavia would collapse. What will you say about the Ilinden Rebellion in Macedonia (1904). It's goal was to make it part of Bulgaria.Unfortunately unsuccesful. Back then about 70% of the popullation in Macedonia claimed they were Bulgarian. Nowadays most of them have either came back to Bulgaria , or have been taught for years and years that they are Macedonians , or if someone says that there isn't such a nation they better say they are Serbs than Bulgarians. That's why nowadays muslims fight for more and more rights in Macedonia and have a growing influence. And now when we (Bulgarians) entered the EU Macedonians are stragling to get Bulgarian Citizenship.
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
That's the same thing happening around here, with Moldovans asking for Romanian citizenship. About 1 million people asked for Romanian citizenship, which represents just slightly less than 1/4 of the whole population of Moldova.
Fieldmarchall
Chieftain
Historical name for today macedonia is ancient serbia and skopje was capital of serbian empire in 14th century. In every case, you can download new scenario BALKAN WARS DELUXE herehttp://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11005
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11189
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11189
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11189
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11189
That map showing the winter 1912 status in the Balkans is actually useful. I hadn't seen anything that specific before.
Just like Balkan nationalistic hatred.
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