The Free Spirits

[Strider]

For the other, I don't know that there is anyway to format an amendment to make that sort of distinction possible. It seems to me that the work involved in verifying something along those lines is massive compared to the returns from the work.

It's possible, I've got alot of experience in writing constitutional amendments. Trust me, it's possible.

Although, as I've said in the past. Including a "Book of Comments" with each amendment names inside of the Constituion/Code of Laws that basically summarizes what a amendment's purpose is (in plain terms.. none of the fancy constitution writing) would be a huge benefit. Plus it would aid the Judicial Review process greatly.

 

[Whomp]

It's possible, I've got alot of experience in writing constitutional amendments. Trust me, it's possible.

Although, as I've said in the past. Including a "Book of Comments" with each amendment names inside of the Constituion/Code of Laws that basically summarizes what a amendment's purpose is (in plain terms.. none of the fancy constitution writing) would be a huge benefit. Plus it would aid the Judicial Review process greatly.

I like it. How do we get that done?

 

[Mr. G]

How can you speak of elitism when most parties don't deny a citizen membership even if he is already part of another one? That seems over the top to begin with as far as poltical parties are concerned.

And slate voting is present everywhere, that's a fact (even in citizen groups, it's unspoken but a factor). But once part of a party it is you who ultimately decides if you wish to vote along party lines or not. Besides, the ultimate object of a political party is representation; if you are one who believes in the party's principles then you will have a good chance of getting someone elected who will carry out the principles you believe in.

 

[Swissempire]

WHile your ideas seems okay, it seems more of a suppression than a solution!

 

[Strider]

I like it. How do we get that done?

First we must drag through the constitution discussion threads and try to find out the purpose of all the amendments. Sending messages to the authors of certain amendments to clarify what is meant by a certain phrase (or what is being implied).

Secondly, we must then use the collected data to create the summary of the amendments purpose.

Thirdly, we must drain the blood from a thousand virgins using there flesh as the pages, and their blood as the ink. Using their fresh hearts, we must pray to the great lord Acerbity to grant our book a holy light, inwhich all who read will be enlightened.

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That last part may be hard to do (Incase anyone is wondering.. Acerbity is just another word for sarcasm).

 

[Strider]

And slate voting is present everywhere, that's a fact (even in citizen groups, it's unspoken but a factor). But once part of a party it is you who ultimately decides if you wish to vote along party lines or not. Besides, the ultimate object of a political party is representation; if you are one who believes in the party's principles then you will have a good chance of getting someone elected who will carry out the principles you believe in.

It's always your choice, but at what cost? Not voting for one of your party members may make them angry, and cause your party not to vote for you. Without the support of your party, your chance to get elected is zero.

I have the reputation to get elected without the support of a party, but there are many newer players who do not have that opportunity.

How can you speak of elitism when most parties don't deny a citizen membership even if he is already part of another one? That seems over the top to begin with as far as poltical parties are concerned.

The only reason why they don't deny membership is because denying membership is against forum policy. In past demogames, several people have already attempted to claim that the demogame rules should be above forum policy. If given the chance, they would deny membership.

 

[Mr. G]

It's always your choice, but at what cost? Not voting for one of your party members may make them angry, and cause your party not to vote for you. Without the support of your party, your chance to get elected is zero.

I have the reputation to get elected without the support of a party, but there are many newer players who do not have that opportunity.

How is it possible to tell? Aren't all our votes just little tallies on a poll? Keep your mouth shut if you don't vote for your own party's canidate, or else tell the party why you don't think he's qualified. That's all part of the fun of it, seeing how your conduct and decisions affect your political life.

 

[Strider]

How is it possible to tell? Aren't all our votes just little tallies on a poll? Keep your mouth shut if you don't vote for your own party's canidate, or else tell the party why you don't think he's qualified. That's all part of the fun of it, seeing how your conduct and decisions affect your political life.

It's possible to tell who voted for who, and it can be noticed by complete accident by someone who is observant enough. Also, this game is not centered around politics. They have other DG-like games that center around political parties and politics.

 

[DaveShack]

First we must drag through the constitution discussion threads and try to find out the purpose of all the amendments. Sending messages to the authors of certain amendments to clarify what is meant by a certain phrase (or what is being implied).

Secondly, we must then use the collected data to create the summary of the amendments purpose.

Are you talking about the Articles and Sections?

For Articles, it's extremely easy to get this information. For Sections it's a little more difficult but still not what I'd call hard. All one needs to do is ask, and as I see it you've asked. What format do you want the information in?

 

[Strider]

Are you talking about the Articles and Sections?

For Articles, it's extremely easy to get this information. For Sections it's a little more difficult but still not what I'd call hard. All one needs to do is ask, and as I see it you've asked. What format do you want the information in?

The same format they write the for dummies books in.

 

[DaveShack]

If you have any specific questions about either the Constitution or CoL, may I suggest a visit to the Help Desk? You're also welcome to join the staff there and share your knowledge.

Pick an article or section, preferably one which you find difficult. I'll try to write something plain about it. This will be a challenge for me but we must all face our demons eventually.

 

[DaveShack]

It's possible to tell who voted for who, and it can be noticed by complete accident by someone who is observant enough. Also, this game is not centered around politics. They have other DG-like games that center around political parties and politics.

That's an interesting claim, forgive me for prying but how? I can think of one way, by happening to be online when the other person casts their vote, and refreshing the page. Of course there another even more obvious way, by looking at what people say about who they voted for.

 

[Mr. G]

Allow me to reiterate "that's all part of the fun of it"...

So, (in part) because of possiblilities or accidents that may or may not lead to one group of people not liking a citizen in one election, you think political parties should have no place here? Am I close? Also, please refrain from telling me what this game is or is not about. It means different things to different people. You may ignore politics if you wish, and even fight to abolish it, but they exist here just as much as they do in the real world. Consider that the DGame is more than getting a group of people together to play a Civilization IV, version1.52 game in order to satisfy Victory Conditions to beat the Artificial Intelligence.

Citizen groups are fickle, they come and go as game conditions change (e.g. an Explorer's Union at a 1BC Civ3 DGame). Done creatively, they can change thought and imprint themselves on memory, but exist only to fufill a goal. Political parties have the power to sustain themselves and transcend the ages, focusing on game-long ideals.

 

[GenMarshall]

That's interesting, you have two members who have not posted in the thread.

Some are in College and have classes from 9-7 on a Tuesday and a relationship . I did not bothered to log in yesterday because I felt so fatuged from having a long class day.

An amendment to eliminate parties will be very difficult. It will be completely impossible to ban slate voting, because if there are no parties people will just go back into the shady world of private chat rooms and PMs.

Difficult, yes. Impossible, that word is not in my vocabulary.

 

[BCLG100]

Some are in College and have classes from 9-7 on a Tuesday and a relationship . I did not bothered to log in yesterday because I felt so fatuged from having a long class day.
QUOTE]

That is proving his point that this group was created in chat or something along them lines.

 

[Strider]

That's an interesting claim, forgive me for prying but how? I can think of one way, by happening to be online when the other person casts their vote, and refreshing the page. Of course there another even more obvious way, by looking at what people say about who they voted for.

Basically, if you observe the Who's Online at the top of the page, and add in a players goals/personality.. you can make an extremely close guess on every vote placed. Not hard to do, I've been doing it for months now.

So, (in part) because of possiblilities or accidents that may or may not lead to one group of people not liking a citizen in one election, you think political parties should have no place here? Am I close? Also, please refrain from telling me what this game is or is not about. It means different things to different people. You may ignore politics if you wish, and even fight to abolish it, but they exist here just as much as they do in the real world. Consider that the DGame is more than getting a group of people together to play a Civilization IV, version1.52 game in order to satisfy Victory Conditions to beat the Artificial Intelligence.

The game now only surivives to feed several peoples selfish ambitions. After the skys fall down, what other purpose will we have to fight for? Or would you rather just lay in ecstasy, blind to that which is burning? Were lighting flames under the feet of those that have caused no harm, letting them burn for our demented pleasures.

Let your egoism rip and tear you, however often you like.

That is proving his point that this group was created in chat or something along them lines.

They haven't posted, because I wanted to get acouple of members to join before I posted the thread. I explained the party to them, and asked them to join. There was no cooperative movement, I figured that the party would be more successful with a larger starting member-base. People are more likely to join, if there jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[Strider]

Everyone feels the fear of uncertainty, yet, why allow the fear to steer? Maybe it's time to find out that your the one who should be behind the wheel? Only when you drive yourself is the light found.

Political parties divide, it's taking a group of people, and then drawing a line between them. Yeah, before that line, some people may have converged in one pack or the other, but the division was never solid.

Tell me, how do political parties aid those new to the game? They start off with large amounts of data and useless information, move into complex ranking systems, and contain platforms that requires prior-demogame knowledge to understand. What purpose do they serve, other than to cause these type of arguements? A Citizen Group can achieve the same effects, without the slate voting.

I've seen the comments that political parties make the game more fun, and I repeat once again, it's no more fun than a citizen group is capable of. The only purpose of political parties is to make sure your elected, which makes the game unfair to those who don't share the same advantage.

 

[robboo]

Strider..as someone who is very new to demo games. I joined the "partee" for some of the reasons you state. Also, I joined it also because I thought thats how it was done in demo games.

I would rather be an independent but I dont think I would get a vote( well maybe I would vote for me) in an election since I only have about 12 posts.

 

[Strider]

Strider..as someone who is very new to demo games. I joined the "partee" for some of the reasons you state. Also, I joined it also because I thought thats how it was done in demo games.

I would rather be an independent but I dont think I would get a vote( well maybe I would vote for me) in an election since I only have about 12 posts.

It is the way it's done currently, but not the way it has to be, or the way it was done before. In real life politics, political parties are a necessity. Why? Because with thousands of people, a single individual will not make any differance. Inside of a game this small, the individuals can make an impact.

Your posts don't matter, it's the quality of the posts that matters. You just have to get involved inside of the game, get a reputation.

If your unsure as to how to get involved you can just ask here. As I've said many times, I'll be happy to help out anyone interested inside of the game. Also, if your alittle embrassed about asking in public, I keep my PM box pretty empty. So be free to ask VIA PM to.

 

[DaveShack]

Your posts don't matter, it's the quality of the posts that matters. You just have to get involved inside of the game, get a reputation.

Well said! I totally agree with this statement, because I'm a perfect example of someone who did exactly that. Back in DG3 I showed up at one of the term 1 chats to see what the game was about, and the next day started posting solid advice on the in-game situation, which took my post count into 2 digits. That small amount of on-topic comments were enough to get me elected as Science Advisor for term 2.

Several of us old-timers (some older than others) go out of our way to support and vote for new people who are solid contributors. In fact one just came to my attention yesterday. They have to do their own work, I agree with Strider on that point, but advice is given freely.

Back to the subject which prompted all this back and forth -- parties aren't needed for someone to make progress in the game. I personally wouldn't want someone who is a good party organizer but can't play the game to get elected to an office, and I am independent and vote for the candidate who understands what's going on. Even so, I don't think we can put the genie back in the bottle.