The Fundamental "Rights" of Humans

Stylesjl

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What do you think are the rights that a state must uphold regardless of circumstances? I for one think the greatest right is due process

Due process is required to make sure that people are only punished once they have been fairly convicted, it also means people have a proper right to defense, no ex post facto laws*, no double jeopardy*2, etc

*Ex post facto is laws passed after a crime is commited making that act criminal or introducing a harsher penalty. Such should be forbidden because people are unaware of its criminality at the time of the offense

*2 Double Jeopardy means you can't be tried multiple times (for the same crime) or have the same punishment applied multiple times for the same offense.

I also think that right of not having punishment that is cruel, degrading, excessive, and grossly unusual. Also torture should be forbidden as well under almost all circumstances
 
The most basic fundamental right is the right to feed yourself and your family. In other words, the right to work. I believe all people are born with other fundamental rights, but depending on what sort of culture they come from, they might not be aware of them, or value them. But the right to work, feed and clothe onself is universal, and the one people value the most.
 
Modernly, doctrine speaks of 4 generations of rights, all of them arising from a particular moment of history:

First generation - Individual Rights:

These are derived from the enlightening, and were aimed at defeating the absolute power of Kings over the lifes of citzens. They encompass rights such as these of life, health, freedom of movement, though and religion as well as property.

The first generation also spawned in europe, and in much of the europe-influenced world of the time, the doctrine of "great codifications", particularly used in France and, to a lesser extend, in Germany, that advocated the creation of great "codes of law", that aimed at regulating every single situation of conflict that could possibly arise - what it, evidently, failed to accomplish.

From that stage comes documents regarded as of major importance in the development of western society, such as the "Napoleonic Code", which brought Civil Law to a new level, and the world-famous "Universal Declaration of Human Rights".

Despite it's tremendous importance, the rights of first generation have met meritorious critique. It was so centered in property that Civil Law is still today nicknamed "rich law" in some circles, as most of the destituted population got no measurable benefit from it's institutions.

Second Generation - Social Rights:

The first attempt to solve the gaps within the first generation of rigts was very sucessful in several of it's tasks. The rights now not only spoke of the prerrogatives of man before his property (against other man), but now it also incompassed a whole other deal of worries, making it the generation of rights of man before the social body.

The rights of the second generation, than, encompass right of employment, right of dignifying condition, right of education, right of retirement, right of security, and, in general, states as a principle that the adverse conditions for social development must be addressed by the powers that be in order to guarantee to everyone their fair shot at sucess.

This is a child of the social worries that came from the early laissez-faire industrial revolution, and of opposion brought by the ideals of communism. It's also the school of thought behind welfare and social-democracy.

Third Generation - collective rights:

As human experience furthered, a new gap in the recognized human rights were observed by the legal philosophy. It was observed that all the rights known at the time were completely focused on individuals, be it against man, be it against society. Society, however, also needed protection, and sometimes it was not easy to point a person to be the one individual particularly interested in defending it.

Who, for example, has the right to a clean environment? Who has the right to stop a predatory business practice? Who is individually interested in stopping the destruction of the rain forrest?

To deal with such, the doctrine enunciated collective; diffuse and trans-individual rights, which encompass human beings (individually identifiable or not) as the interested parties in the defense of rights that affect collectivity as a whole. Hence, though nobody have personally a say to stop, for instance, an industry to pollute the environment, the collective interest can act in such direction.

Fourth generation (controversial):

Fresh from the elven, there is a fourth generation, which can be, so far, considered to deal with *residual* rights not covered by the previous three. The classic example is bioethics. Where is the interest in preventing abominous experiments with human cells? They don't affect an particular individual or the community directly, so they don't fit any of the three generations enunciated before. They, however, do mess with patrimony that is intrinsic to the world and to our conditions as human beings, hence the necessity for regulation.

This very new and highly controversial doctrine, however, still need to be consolidated, and it may very well end up absorbed by the previous generation. Time will tell.

Regards :).
 
That is really good :cool:

And i would consider the first and second generation rights the most important
 
Man has no inherant rights.
 
Indeed. Any 'inherient' rights for humanity are imposed by civilization and society. Take those out of the mix, and you don't have any rights.
 
Turner_727 said:
Indeed. Any 'inherient' rights for humanity are imposed by civilization and society. Take those out of the mix, and you don't have any rights.

Moreover they're backed up by force or threat of force.
 
Turner_727 said:
Indeed. Any 'inherient' rights for humanity are imposed by civilization and society. Take those out of the mix, and you don't have any rights.

Obviously, the point I assume is what rights should we establish as a species or a society that make for an efficient, and just society. What rights should we adopt as fundemental and revere and fight for and make extremely difficult for the governemnt structures we set up to deny.
 
The necessity of power to back up human rights is a fact. But it does not threat the inherent nature of them.

Human rights are inherent, because they decribe how men would act if forces external to the individuals, such as the opression of other men, did not worked to prevent them such action.

Hence, force is needed to violate human rights as much as it is needed to back it up. The idea is that by opposing force with force, you allow the reign of the natural condition.

That is why we have a declaration of human rights, not an institution of human rights.

Regards :).
 
I see what you're saying, Fred, and I even agree with it, on a certain level.

But it just strikes me as wrong.

I'm gonna hold on justifying that, and try and digest what you've said.

Or, possibly, eat some crow. ;)
 
FredLC said:
The necessity of power to back up human rights is a fact. But it does not threat the inherent nature of them.

Human rights are inherent, because they decribe how men would act if forces external to the individuals, such as the opression of other men, did not worked to prevent them such action.

Hence, force is needed to violate human rights as much as it is needed to back it up. The idea is that by opposing force with force, you allow the reign of the natural condition.

That is why we have a declaration of human rights, not an institution of human rights.

Regards :).

And people wonder why I'm so fond of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. One can't get away from giving government the force necessary to oppose those seeking to deny others their rights on a retail (criminals) or wholesale (foreign invasion) scale. But, when you deny a population the cumulative force necessary to resist the government's potential violation of human rights, things can get unpleasant.
 
Well, Igloodude, I don't know if that follows.

Truth is that should an organized Coup happen with the support of the necessary segments (some political group of influence - and the following sect of the population; people with money; and the military), it's rather unlikely that the civil forces would manage to resist.

On the contrary, history have been showing that the best way to keep lunatics away from power is with strong institutions founded on the premisses of democracy and human rights.

When this is incontestable, power seizure is a material impossibility.

Regards :).
 
FredLC said:
Well, Igloodude, I don't know if that follows.

Truth is that should an organized Coup happen with the support of the necessary segments (some political group of influence - and the following sect of the population; people with money; and the military), it's rather unlikely that the civil forces would manage to resist.

On the contrary, history have been showing that the best way to keep lunatics away from power is with strong institutions founded on the premisses of democracy and human rights.

When this is incontestable, power seizure is a material impossibility.

Regards :).

I too would prefer strong institutions founded on the premises of democracy and human rights. But, those institutions can decline from any number of factors, and the first public symptoms could be government violations of Individual Rights.
 
FredLC said:
Human rights are inherent, because they decribe how men would act if forces external to the individuals, such as the opression of other men, did not worked to prevent them such action.

What an artificial construction.

Oppressing other men is part of the way that men act in a state of nature.
 
Aside from the pack pecking order, the whole Alpha male and Alpha female thing, in a 'state of nature' theres no such thing as the sort of oppression we're familiar with.
 
SeleucusNicator said:
What an artificial construction.

Oppressing other men is part of the way that men act in a state of nature.

Fighting back too.

State is no more than a huge "fighting back".

Regards :).
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Aside from the pack pecking order, the whole Alpha male and Alpha female thing, in a 'state of nature' theres no such thing as the sort of oppression we're familiar with.

Ditto! :goodjob:
 
Bozo Erectus said:
Aside from the pack pecking order, the whole Alpha male and Alpha female thing, in a 'state of nature' theres no such thing as the sort of oppression we're familiar with.

Well, none of us have ever observed man in a state of nature, but I can tell you that if we're anything like Chimpanzees and other highly evolved primates, there certainly is oppression in the state of nature.

Wild chimps and other apes will divide into gangs and hunt down and kill each other to increase the amount of resources they can enjoy. After all, it is in their interest to do so.
 
FredLC said:
Fighting back too.

State is no more than a huge "fighting back".

Its arguable whether the state came into existance because of a "let's form something to protect ourselves" mentality or if some power-hungry individual merely established one and others voluntarily subjected themselves because of their desire for security.

But either case presents us with a great need among humans for additional security, and I think this simply points more and more to man oppressing other men as an integral part of human nature.
 
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