The future according to John Titor

[Archer 007]

Originally posted by Neomega
Angry, as am I, still, about Waco Texas and Ruby ridge, the Democrat arm of the police state.

Why are you angry? Because criminals got what they deserved?

 

[stormbind]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Sounds like it would be impossible...

Oh well. In which case, I guess there must be worldline that had multiple John Tidors return to it!

And others where he didn't come back at all

 

[Gothmog]

Yeah, like Evertonian I think it is clear that this is the wish list of a right leaning militia type. Here are a few choice parts…

In any case, it also lets Darwin take over. One of the reasons drug abuse isn't a major problem in 2036 is because no one wants to die from it and everyone else who did is dead.

There is no real organized health care. If you get a serious disease, you die. This however has had a tendency to strengthen the general genetic pool.

Both of these statements show a clear lack of understanding about drug users and genetics in general. He fails to separate drugs in general from recreational drugs. Few people die from recreational drug use, and most who do have ample opportunity to reproduce first. Again with serious diseases, what you die of doesn’t affect the gene pool unless the disease strikes in childhood.

Also he fails to recognize that recreational drug use is part of human nature. Has been for at least as long as civilization.

The education system has been through many changes. School in 2036 is no longer a political indoctrination system and students "learn how to learn".

Heh, political stripes showing much?

A typical school day involves a setting very much like it was 100 years ago with smaller classes and few administrators to teachers. Other areas of study that are less common now are history, citizenship and personal economics

i.e. things were great 100 years ago in the wild west… when men were men.

The 21st century has awhile to go but the most significant person in my opinion is the farmer-general who led us to victory

The ‘farmer-general’? The only reason to specify ‘farmer’ is to show your personal value judgments.

Have you considered that your society might be better off if half of you were dead?

I think the war would be good for you and your society. I don’t want to stop it.

Doesn’t like current society much does he. Nor most of the people in America (I assume that’s the society he is referring to). In fact he would like to start a revolution.

Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep

Heh, can you say personal opinion? Sound a bit bitter to you? He imagines there was a utopian society that existed in america a hundred or so years ago.

In my opinion, the Gen Xr's ended up in two categories. There were the ones who had learned to be independent by breaking away from tradition and societies expectations and the others who had no idea how to take care of themselves and just wanted the trains to run on time. The ones in the first group feel very guilty about "letting" the world go to Hell and the ones in the second group are dead

At least here he admits he is speaking about his opinion (i.e. his wish list). Of course he thinks of himself as able to take care of himself, and thinks that people who generate wealth on a large scale are soft. He feels that he should be on top and people who want the trains to run on time should be dead.

He has certainly found his calling to have caused such a stir with this tripe. I am sure that in real life he is a big looser, an antisocial zero with delusions of grandeur.

 

[Archer 007]

Gothmog, good take on it.

 

[Hundegesicht]

John Titor's predictions while facinating, are pretty useless. If they are true, there isn't much we can do (or should do) to prevent the events he predicted. If not, I feel sorry for a loser who'd spend that much of his time researching stuff to appear accurate. I suppose I'll know for certain come 2036.

On an interesting note, a friend of mine did a search for 1998 birth records for the area he was supposively born in but couldn't find him?

 

[addiv]

What a load of crap. His 'predictions' are just about the most unlikely one could make. Why do people tend to believe stuff like this?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Hundegesicht, John Titor wasn't his real name. He said it was 'a real name', but not that it was HIS real name.

 

[stormbind]

Yeah, there was a hunt and it's generally accepted that the name is fake.

But if it were not fake, then people would say it's a scam to make a baby relative instantly famous +/- 2035. Fame equals wealth when there's a big story

However, the follow up on his claimed family history led to all sorts of interesting (untold details) that complement claimed details. I'm no expert

I wonder how many people will be staying in DC in 2036? Will there be a slump in house prices?

 

[Bamspeedy]

Yeah, the people who wrote the book did so just to see if the real person behind John Titor would come out and challenge them (sue in court), over 'stealing' his identity/idea, etc.

That would have been interesting!

The last I've seen the suspects are down to:
1. A guy in California (who runs one of the sites) who remarkably fits one of the linguistical profiles somebody did on his postings.
2. Several people who lives in/near Celebration, FL. One has a wife who wrote many sci-fi books. One is an owner of one of the sites.
3. A guy from Massachusettes who has run other websites saying the world will come to an end by various things like a gravitational field knocking the earth out of orbit.

I've heard the book isn't worth reading, as there isn't anything in there that you can't get from the web. There was some debate if whether or not people can sue the author of the book for making money off of their internet postings. I think if you post in a forum, then you give up any copyrights on those words (it's now in the public domain).

 

[stormbind]

The admins could have traced his IP. They may still be able to, yet they haven't.

This is either incompetence or coverup.

As for the posting, that is true to an extent but it's also an "unfair contract" if challenged so not a dead end. In any case, much of what is posted in forums are quotes - which would leave nearly every BBS admin in deep ding-dong so to win such a challenge probably wouldn't be in the admin's best interest

 

[Bamspeedy]

I'm not sure, but I think the IP# traced back to Celebration, FL. Well, Disney set up that WHOLE town with free internet (the whole town is nearly entirely disney employees). If I remember correctly, this means it could have been anybody in that town. Or a hacker could have hacked into any one of those computers in that town.

 

[boogaboo]

Bamspeedy!

You have told us yourself that the main issue for discussion is his theory and his philosophy, and this hasn't been done.

Like most of us sane people, we don't believe him.
I'll tell you one thing, though, I believe him more than god, since god hasn't entered a forum in a long long time.. and is of no current interest for me.

I think John Titor (JT) could be any of numerous possibilities, and I would like to orderly discuss the posibilities -

1. JT was a man with spare time who had internet. (99.9%).
We have discussed this option SO much... all non-believers have made their joust and logical point VERY clear.
PLEASE STOP POSTING IF YOU ONLY WANT TO LAUGH RATHER THAN TALK ABOUT THE OTHER OPTIONS!!! :angry:

2. JT was what he claims, and we will know if this is true by the end of the year. (0.0001%)
If it is true, I'm moving from Israel to open a bicycle tires shop.. Somewhere. And piling up amounts of seroxat and food/water.
JT's theory can be discussed point by point on things like environment (see my only reaction in "Automobiles" thread..), politics, overpopulation...
As the bible created god, so did this person build a nice theory of the future, which we can think about even if it isn't true.
Many debates could rise instead of junk posts for 2 out of 3 pages ..

3. JT was a lunatic from 2358 who "escaped from the camp", and Sala Ictar is a current student-traveler.. (0.0001%).
Here, Sala Ictar is the "good cop" (where is he posting from, people?! Can't we trace HIS hoax ip address??!!).
Since Sala Ictar exists in this possibility, he may be lying about JT and about other things.
We'll probably find out about that soon


So.
Are we dealing with the fact that this thread should deal with option.. say .... 2 !
Sala Ictar won't tell us the truth anyways since he's the "good" guy, and I think option 1 has been OVERDISCUSSED.
I'm disgusted myself.
uke:

Please talk about option 2.
Please.
It may develop into a cult of enviromental right wing..
It may evolve into anything we make of it.
And we'll know in a few months.
Just like the thrill of buying a lottery ticket.
You lost, but just perhaps...
And even if not.. great life philosophy,
and I don't read sci-fi so don't ask.
Yes, I saw Startrek the next generation, but that's it.
me not borg.

Me Chaim, signing out, but still at work..

 

[Bamspeedy]

If it is true, I'm moving from Israel to open a bicycle tires shop.. Somewhere. And piling up amounts of seroxat and food/water.

Actually, it would probably be a good idea to have a 'survival pack' handy, regardless if any of this is true. With more and more nations having nukes and the increased possibility of terrorists to get their hands on them it's smarter to be more prepared for it.

What will kill most people is the radiation fallout (assuming you aren't right at ground zero). But you can avoid that if you are able to quickly get underground and have food/water handy to survive about a week or so (until the real worst of the radiation is gone, so the radiation levels have at least gone down a bit), then come out and go to a safer place.

No, I'm not suggesting anyone go crazy and stockpile 1000 gallons of water or anything like that. Just a little pack that you can quickly grab in an emergency. You can google some survivalists websites and see some ideas of what you should have in that pack. The more you feel that an area near you could be nuked, the more serious you should be about being prepared for it. Most probably won't buy a portable water purifier/filtration system (~$75), but hey, if you have money to spend, why not? Don't stockpile guns, there will plenty to find if everyone else is dead.

overpopulation...

That is one issue I agree with Titor (but not necessarily to his extent). Sooner or later we will run out of room and it will be a 'Hell's kitchen'. I don't think we are at that point yet, but at some point, somewhere in the future we probably would be better off 'if half of us was dead'. Extending the life expectancy to 90, 100, 110+, etc. is just accelerating us to that point.

 

[boogaboo]

Now that I've designed my avatar...

I think that people exadurate on how life can be prolonged.
I smoke, some people take too much sweets others fat meat.
It might not matter since we can replace body parts, but for most of us, the brain also begins to die at 70-80, and can't reach 90-100, many don't want to get that age.

Natural selection will certainly anal-ize us..

 

[Gothmog]

boogaboo: I feel that I did try to discuss his philosophy. He has no theory to speak of afaikt. What I saw of his posts were more on the order of value judgements and a wish list than anything else. It also seems very specific to American society, not really taking a global perspective... now why would that be? If you have specific points that you feel reflect his 'theory and philosophy' that I missed, please elaborate.

As far as the 'Hell's kitchen' analogy, we again need a more global perspective. If we are talking about 'first world western' society, then clearly population growth is declining (negative in many places) and takes a major back seat to per capita consumption as a problem for the environment and a livable society. Reduce, reuse, recycle.

Immigration and 'non first world western' contries are different issues, but currently the american economy benefits hugely from cheap domestic labor, as well as exploitation of resources (including labor) from poorer countries. Immigration can be handled in a number of different ways but I really don't see building a giant wall as a good solution. We share the earth with everyone here, it's one interconected system.

So who is going to run out of room? How much room does a person need anyway? There is no consensus on the 'carrying capacity' of the earth even given todays demographics, much less trying to extrapolate to the future. It may be that not everyone can live at our current US standard of living. Still, that doesn't mean the earth has to become 'Hells kitchen'.

Really, if you are worried about the earth becoming 'Hell's kitchen' it seems to me that you are better off trying to support governments that provide a basic standard of living for all its citizens than wishing that half the human population would just dissappear. It wont, and even if it did (war, disease, genocide, etc.), the problem is obviously systemic and would simply reappear.

I hear a lot of crying and bitterness in his posts about the various problems we face as humans, but nothing about tenable solutions. Unless you believe that the imaginary utopian society he believes existed in America a hundred or so years ago can be extended to the entire earth.

 

[betazed]

Originally posted by Gothmog
about tenable solutions...

I am reading E.O. Wilson's "The future of Life" where he talks about possible solutions about precisely these issues. As an optimist he paints a picture where he thinks that mankind can ultimately strike a balance between development, consumption and earth's carrying capacity.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I feel that I did try to discuss his philosophy.

Yeah, you did, but 90% of the other posters just covered their eyes and ears screaming "Oh, time traveler, can't be bothered to read any of this!"

Neomega's description of Titor fits Titor's political stance pretty well. He's also shows signs of being a survivalists and militia member. Some have also speculated he could be KKK. Compare the political map from the 2000 election (that hinted towards what areas would be hit) and the racial demographic makeup of the country. There isn't prejudice in his time, because the nukes got rid of most non-whites.
Whether him supporting the 'rural'/'country' people (mostly all whites) is really related to any racism in him or not is debatable.

So who is going to run out of room? How much room does a person need anyway? There is no consensus on the 'carrying capacity' of the earth even given todays demographics, much less trying to extrapolate to the future. It may be that not everyone can live at our current US standard of living. Still, that doesn't mean the earth has to become 'Hells kitchen'.

Get too many rats in a cage and they start killing each other, regardless of how much food and water is available. Of course that is 'rat' instinct and not necessarily human instinct, but it is something to think about.

Resources eventually won't be able to support too many people. What happens then, just let people starve to death? That already happens. What will happen when it is the 2nd and 1st world countries that run out of food instead of just the 3rd world countries?

 

[thestonesfan]

Originally posted by Archer 007
Why are you angry? Because criminals got what they deserved?

Weaver's wife deserved a bullet to the back of the head?

The FBI is like the crowd of macho jocks in high school, except they have guns.

 

[Gothmog]

What I was trying to say was, no don't let people starve to death. That is the path towards Hells kitchen. Try to provide a decent standard of living for everyone - that is the way towards a stable livable society where wealth can be generated.

Also that it is not clear what constitutes 'too many people'. You need to define how much resources each person needs, as well as how those resources are generated and distributed. We can't do that for current society, much less try to extrapolate into the future (demographics and technology are key here).

I get what you are saying about rats in a cage, but that applies more to urban centers than to the earth at large. Also, it does seem that killing each other is part of human nature and always has been. We should try to work around that, not deny it. Try to create systems where that instinct is minimized.

It has been clearly shown that when you educate women, and provide opportunities for everyone, population growth decreases. This is my #1 solution to the problems facing the human race, education. Specifically, providing free secular education for everyone - especially women.

Finally, as I am sure you know, people starve for political reasons - not because we don't produce enough food. Not because there isn't potential to feed everyone.

 

[Grav]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Resources eventually won't be able to support too many people. What happens then, just let people starve to death? That already happens. What will happen when it is the 2nd and 1st world countries that run out of food instead of just the 3rd world countries?

This would only be true in a closed environment. We know this is not the case for earth. The United States (a first world nation), will never run out of food. Why? Because our food production and potential, is far greater than our population. Sunlight and vast flat land are what drives our food production. In both cases, I'm pretty sure with no matter HOW many people they are on earth, those two things will still be there. Also, with genetically engineered crops, and if we used all of our airable land, we could probably feed the entire world.