The gender equality paradox

[warpus]

You can't really compare races to genders - genders exist as specific biological constructs - while a race is an abstract human construct instead. It's a made up classification - penises and vaginas actually exist as things that can be seen and touched.

But sure, is there a difference in the way Jews view the world, compared to say.. Eskimos? Yeah, why not. It doesn't really help my point any, nor does it hurt it, but it answers your question, so why not.

What's so bad about admitting that I, a man, differ from a woman in several fundamental ways? It doesn't take away from the fact that we are both human and deserve equal consideration under the law.

 

[Lillefix]

Well, I'll try this, just as an experiment.

Does it work?

(Not that I want to be deliberately contentious, mind you.)

The guy with the documentary in the opening post also had a documentary with that theme, and surprisingly many don't believe that genetics may have something to do with the fact that the best sprinters in the world are all Africans. The problem of course is the following: If we say that some races are more suited for running than others it would be quite natural to assume that some races were more suited to thinking than others...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19l3L-ldLas

 

[Borachio]

You can't really compare races to genders - genders exist as specific biological constructs - while a race is an abstract human construct instead. It's a made up classification - penises and vaginas actually exist as things that can be seen and touched.

But sure, is there a difference in the way Jews view the world, compared to say.. Eskimos? Yeah, why not. It doesn't really help my point any, nor does it hurt it, but it answers your question, so why not.

What's so bad about admitting that I, a man, differ from a woman in several fundamental ways? It doesn't take away from the fact that we are both human and deserve equal consideration under the law.

I don't see anything bad about it. I just don't think it's true, though I'm still willing to be convinced, that men and women differ fundamentally.

Certainly not behaviourally.

(And in fact I don't think they differ biologically, fundamentally, either. But that's probably a far too extreme point of view to gain much acceptability, so I think we should ignore I said it.)

 

[timtofly]

Could it not be said that even evolutional changes in society could also act as natural selection factors in how humans evolved biologically?

 

[Borachio]

I suppose so. I don't see how culture and biology can be easily separated from each other in any meaningful way. We're irremediably social animals.

 

[warpus]

I don't see anything bad about it. I just don't think it's true, though I'm still willing to be convinced, that men and women differ fundamentally.

Certainly not behaviourally.

(And in fact I don't think they differ biologically, fundamentally, either. But that's probably a far too extreme point of view to gain much acceptability, so I think we should ignore I said it.)

Depends on your definition of "fundamentally".. We are the same species after all, so you will not find any giant differences.

Do men go through menopause though? Do we have internal organs that help us give birth? Do our nipples produce milk? How would you compare the internal concentrations of estrogen and testosterone in men and women? Do men once a month secrete blood through their vaginas?

There are significant differences in our internal chemistries.. in some ways fundamental, in some ways not. These differences affect the way we see the world and behave/respond to it.

I think the issue might be that you think that I am saying that the change is.. larger than I am saying that it is. After all, we are the same species, so there ought to be more similarities than not.

Could it not be said that even evolutional changes in society could also act as natural selection factors in how humans evolved biologically?

There hasn't been a lot of time since we threw civilization together, definitely not enough to affect the way the human species has been evolving. If you mean before that, then I would say that the differences were most felt wrt sexual selection, not natural selection. So there's some influence there, you're right, but I'm not exactly sure to what degree.

 

[Borachio]

That depends on what you mean by civilization.

I think there's some evidence to suggest that people have evolved since the discovery of fire, and more especially cooking. We're a species that predigests its food in significant ways. And it's not certain that we could return to a totally raw diet. Certainly not easily. And not collectively. Though a few individuals do try to do so.

Europeans have also adapted to things like digesting milk as adults. Or more easily than most other adult human beings. Still, does that qualify as an evolutionary change? Probably not. It's probably just something to do with gut flora.

 

[timtofly]

Well microbes evolve faster? If the body does not adjust to those microbes, it would either kill us or revert back to microbes that are beneficial.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, but our bodies do not adjust to stuff when we evolve, we just randomly mutate parts during the creation of a new generation and those who end up with crappy body parts who can't survive well in the environment they find themselves in, die.. those who end up with a lucky random mutation that has lead to a benefit, increase their chance for survival. (incredibly roughly speaking)

I can for sure see fire having had an impact wrt evolution, yeah. I'm just not sure to what extent.

 

[Hygro]

I can for sure see fire having had an impact wrt evolution, yeah. I'm just not sure to what extent.

It means what defines "us" (fire wielding apes) and what defines our "environment" (flaming landscapes of humanity) is so radically changed that the optimal species becomes one that effectively harnesses fire. Successful behaviors pre-fire might become liabilities post fire, and vice versa.

 

[warpus]

The thing with human evolution these days is that *everyone* gets to pass down their genes.. well, almost everyone. There is only sexual selection going on, and not much of natural selection. I'm not sure how that affects us as a species though. Not that I disagree with anything you said, Hygro