The Grigori Adventurers

[Iceciro]

Well, I wanted to bring this up with Fall Further's community for two reasons

1) I think the current system is flawed for Grigori gaining adventurers, but I wanted to make sure I'm not the only one.

2) It fosters discussion about other possibilities I haven't even thought of.

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So, currently, the Grigori gain adventurers as a new type of Great Person that only they snag the points together for. That's all well and good except that
1) there aren't that many buildings they have that produce Adventurer GPP, forcing you to pretty much situate it in your capital for the +2 from the Palace, and
2) You don't want to saturate the pool of GPP with any other kind, so you have to be very wary in what you build, make sure the governor doesn't do anything stupid with specialists, and swear off other kinds of GPP.

Frankly, I think this kind of sucks. The Grigori are the only civ that has to go through this bending over backwards and swearing off of specialists to get their civ-defining trait.

My alternative idea, still in the thinking stages:

Cannibalize the code for Awakened spawning for the Grigori Adventurers, obviously at a very low rate. The saftey catch for this would set the chance pretty high if the Grigori had 0 adventurers in the field, 1-3 would be normal, 4-6 would be halved, 7-9 would be minimal, and at 10 the spawns would stop altogether, if you were somehow lucky enough to get that many (and not an AI who went off and got them killed.)

This system would take a lot of tweaking over time to make sure the spawn rate was right - not too many and not too few. One of the benefits of it is that you could use the existing Grigori buildings that give +Adventurer GPP as spawn rate increasers.

There may be a better way to do it than what I'm thinking of - but I'll never know unless you guys tell me.

 

[Deon]

I quite like the idea, for now I don't play with grigori because I like to pop early GP and it's almost impossible with grigori (and I don't savescum). Basically this won't make them too powerful and also will add a nice and random element (and various events like opening lairs or getting new wonders should up % points).

I think that there may be some drawback to balance it: make the % lower the more you get precious resources (so if you have none there're more people wanting to go out to find a new resources and gold; and when the people are bathing in gems and gold they should be less willing to travel).

 

[Valkrionn]

I'd actually thought of that in the past too, but didn't want to touch any other civs at the time. I think it's the perfect fix.

 

[Dragonlord]

I had similar issues with the Grigori, but I have a simpler solution: just give them a unique GP that gives Adventurer points.. say a Scoutmaster that gives one shield and one gold, or something like that. Then you can choose whether to prefer Adventurers over other types of GP. As it is now, you basically can't assign any citizens as GPs w/o ruining your chances for Adventurers.

 

[Honor]

How about bringing back the great general bar for the Grigori only to have it spawn Adventurers instead?

 

[Iceciro]

That could work, except I'm still pulling for them to bring back GGs from Combat!

 

[zup]

I build adventure point buildings everywhere and run a specialist economy. Eventually I get lucky and pop an adventurer. The 2 I get in the beginning will go a long way. Dragon slayer knights == win.

 

[Rystic]

Fall Further added a Museum building. That could give Great Adventurer GPP. It would help fight GPP pool pollution from other specialists. Honestly, I think the Adventurer thing works fine, what needs attention are the Luonnatar.

If you bring back the General Generals, let them have a UB for the Grigori that gives Adventurer points. That could help, too.

 

[cyther]

Luonnator definatly do need something but I can't really be sure what.

As for the Grigori Adventurers, they work great with a spawn code like the scions have. I tested it out about two weeks ago and it really improves the Grigori. I also left the Adventurer GP points in but at a reduced rate so Soren doesn't destroy their early game.

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I think the idea is brilliant. I propose to have the current buildings giving GPPs for adventurers to increase the chances of getting an adventurer. It makes sense to assume that adventurers are more likely to be recruited when there are many taverns in the empire. Of course, this would count only if the number of adventurers are below the limit.
Perhaps it would be better to adjust the limit to the map size.

 

[Iceciro]

This will be in the (Patch J) open beta release of Fall Flat then.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

In my versions, you can settle Adventurers in cities to provide Adventurer points, culture, and a little XP. Adventurers can also revert back to being an adventurer unit again and choose a different upgrade path. Luonnatar are weaker, available sooner, can target disciple units in stacks of stronger units (except when in cities), and instead of having Inquisitor they have the unit specific spells Enlighten Populace (which is like Inquisition but can remove even state religions from rival cities) and Enlighten Units (which has a chance to remove religions from nearby units, both yours and rivals, including from priests thus depriving them of their spells).

 

[WarKirby]

personally, I've never liked the entire specialist system at all, of "polluting" the GPP pool, or relying on random chance to get what types you want. I think the entire system is a series of poor design choices by firaxis. But that's beside the point.


for grigori, I think having the adventurers not tied to GPP would be a great idea. Maybe being at war could increase the spawn rate, and also having less than x cities,to represent the early pioneer spirit

 

[Lemminkäinen]

I think the idea is brilliant. I propose to have the current buildings giving GPPs for adventurers to increase the chances of getting an adventurer. It makes sense to assume that adventurers are more likely to be recruited when there are many taverns in the empire. Of course, this would count only if the number of adventurers are below the limit.

Agreed!

Perhaps it would be better to adjust the limit to the map size.

OTOH other heroes or, for example national units, aren't limited by map size. On smaller maps all the heroes play a bigger part.

 

[Iceciro]

This is what I was thinking about doing, but it's nice to know other people are as interested by it as me (and put off by the system as it stands now.)

 

[WarKirby]

Perhaps each dungeon explored, could increase the spawn rate. As well as each barbarian or wild animal killed.

to encourage sending adventurers to do.. adventuring.

 

[zup]

I don't want limited adventurers (though it is likely just one integer to change anyway). If the game drags on long enough, what's wrong with a SoD of heroes?

 

[WarKirby]

A hero is mostly just a unit that reaches lv10 without battle, in any case. Aside from the unique name and the magic resistance, they're essentially just very powerful normal units, so you already can have a stack of heroes.

I agree with zup, that there shouldn't be a hard limit. If the player wants to expend whatever necessary effort to keep getting adventurers, why not?

 

[Honor]

That's exactly why I suggested the GG bar in the first place. That and to eliminate the dependency on luck.

 

[Rystic]

You could also introduce more buildings that give a bonus %. Awhile ago I suggested a Philosophers' Terrace, built by a Great Sage or a Great Bard:

Philosophers' Terrace, +50%

On a separate note, you could even make Luonnatar the Grigori UU for Great Prophet, and give the Terrace +2 (Luonnatar).