The HRE was Holy, partialy Roman, and an Empire!

wow... this must be the fastest developing thread today... congrats, Firaxis, for making this all possible. :)
 
Will9 said:
People keep saying that HRE was neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire. Not true! It was definetly Christian with religious leaders and followed the Pope in Rome (Holy and partialy Roman). The part about it not being an Empire makes so little sence that I have no arguement for it. The quote reffers to the HRE when it was late in its life and people keep using in a way that it applies for the HRE's entire life.
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You are blind. Simple as that.

The HRE did not have control of rome and if they did it was rarely plus the word roman was merely for show because they thought of themselves as successors. Therefore it was not even Roman.

The HRE was not holy, the HRE came to gripss with the Popes and some HRE were excommunicated, the reformation began in the HRE and the HRE chose to go with it.

The HRE was not an empire because most of the time if it was unified was a messy confederacy of numerous states barely held together. The HRE was elected and held little power.
 
Holae Romin Emperator!!! At least their flag has a nice eagle on it... :)

Anyways, we also don't like the HRE because it took the place of some other deserving civ.
 
But i wish that was the Polish Eagle and the Flag was of Poland...

Polish_Eagle.jpeg
 
There never was a king of Saxony or a king of Bavaria during the time the HRE existed.
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there was. they were "under" the HREmperor.


and another argument against the HRE:

All civs in the game were some kind of culture or ethnicity. The HRE ain't an ethnicity.
 
ohcrapitsnico said:
You are blind. Simple as that.

The HRE did not have control of rome and if they did it was rarely plus the word roman was merely for show because they thought of themselves as successors. Therefore it was not even Roman.
Click to expand...

This means that when Alaric sacked Rome, Roman Empire ceased to exist and that after he left the Eternal City it miraculously reborn? :p Rome, on the lower Roman empire, meant almost nothing ( the emperors prefered Mediolanum, Aquileia or Ravenna as capitols) and the Roman Empire could had lived without Rome quite well.

ohcrapitsnico said:
The HRE was not holy, the HRE came to gripss with the Popes and some HRE were excommunicated, the reformation began in the HRE and the HRE chose to go with it.

The HRE was not an empire because most of the time if it was unified was a messy confederacy of numerous states barely held together. The HRE was elected and held little power.
Click to expand...

There was a real Holy Roman Empire before 1075, with the Ottonid dynasty, with a strong governement based on bishops (thats why bishops in germany sometimes were rulers ). Of course that when the Pope demanded that bishops obeyed to him instead of the Emperor, things got ugly and, after a devastating half century of wars, the Emperor became a nullified figure ( in spite of some Emperors, like Frederick Il Stupor Mundi, tried to bring back a strong HRE ).

If that is enough to HRE enter in Civ IV is a whole diferent issue....
 
this must be the fastest growing thread i've seen today, along with that Fav Religion thread...

HRE = :mad:
 
So it was more or less the Pope ruling the HRE when it was of significance. So we should have a pope in, not Charlemagne. Barbarossa would've been tons better then Charlemagne to.
 
r_rolo1 said:
This means that when Alaric sacked Rome, Roman Empire ceased to exist and that after he left the Eternal City it miraculously reborn? :p Rome, on the lower Roman empire, meant almost nothing ( the emperors prefered Mediolanum, Aquileia or Ravenna as capitols) and the Roman Empire could had lived without Rome quite well.
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Well they were Romans and they ruled the Roman empire, of course they were romans the whole time.:p :mischief:

r_rolo1 said:
There was a real Holy Roman Empire before 1075, with the Ottonid dynasty, with a strong governement based on bishops (thats why bishops in germany sometimes were rulers ). Of course that when the Pope demanded that bishops obeyed to him instead of the Emperor, things got ugly and, after a devastating half century of wars, the Emperor became a nullified figure ( in spite of some Emperors, like Frederick Il Stupor Mundi, tried to bring back a strong HRE ).

If that is enough to HRE enter in Civ IV is a whole diferent issue....
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If you look at my post I said MOST of the time, I know the ottonid dysnasty were acutal emperors.
 
"Das liebe Heil'ge Röm'sche Reich,
Wie hält's nur noch zusammen?"

Anyway, I doubt there ever was an empire as fragmented as the Holy Roman one. One rather weak Emperor and hundreds of Princes - some sort of federalism. The HRE was not a sovereign, inviolable entity - everyone could trespass at his own will. The Thirty Years War certainly proved that. And even after Westphalia, no one really cared about the HRE's sovereignty.
Also, lots of people couldn't really discern what the HRE was all about. Both the drunkards in "Faust" and Samuel Pufendorf, an early Enlightment philosopher, had serious troube figuring that out. ;)

It's the same with all those countries calling themselves "Democratic" or "the people's" (as in "German Democratic Republic" or the "Lao People's Democratic Republic") which were neither democratic nor had "the people" anything to say there. I suppose the same applies to "Holy" - How holy can a country be where the Emperor and the Pope constantly vie for power? I suppose God would think otherwise. ;)

As for the Roman part: Well, most of its territory was never part of either the Roman or the Byzantine Empire.

So, after all, I suppose Voltaire was right. :)
 
They weren't kings, though.
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princes, lords, dukes, whatever, its good enough. i am pretty sure there were "kings", however.

remember:

king < emperor. (supposedly)
 
Well would it have been better to say Leader then? Is there much of a difference? It still has the same point.
 
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