The Immortal Challenge 1: Apocalypto

[Giaur]

Romans have Iron near Pisae, beware of them or use their Praets. Tragic map, few resources. I would ran for Alpha first, before IW. Your army seems to be not very small (F9). I would taken down barb city (north-west), but keep one or two chariots near the lake proposed by Sun. If Louis try to place new city there declare war. Put the priest back to work. You increase chances to discover Theology first and you don't have to worry about lack of money, if you have something to trade. Then adopt Theocracy and get or exchange Horseback Riding. It's the fastest way to conquer Louis. Horse archers are much more useful from their Vanilla version. You can give them Flanking2 promotion just to soften the defenders (earieler than cats). However jags with woodsman2 are also nice. The choice is yours. After IW is known I would send two chariots near Louis Iron source (if one has), just to have an advantage.

Good Luck

 

[cabert]

I'd start building sacrificial altars all around the place asap, and go for alphabet after IW.
A few axemen + spearmen to cover the jaguars could be useful. The axemen may not be totally necessary since you have a good number of chariots vs any axemen threat.

 

[lilnev]

Are you certain that the lake is fresh water? Above a certain size, it won't be, but I don't remember what the threshold is. If it is, the dotmap looks fine.

I think the capital wants a sac alter to abuse all that food, but second and third cities probably don't yet. Alternatively, you could whip a library in the capital and start running two scientists. It's not too soon to start thinking about Philosophy.

Get those hills mined! It kills me to see so many unimproved tiles being worked. And yet I see two unnecessary road tiles by the capital (due N and E of it; they won't speed up any conceivable movement path).

I'm actually not sold on the chariot rush idea. It seems to me to be a gambit for when you're seriously cramped. Also, he'll probably be too angry and/or backwards to be a reasonable trading partner, leaving you just Augustus until Optics. But if you do rush him, take at least 10 chariots. I would expect to face 3 archers, and a fourth wouldn't surprise me. If you arrive with not enough force, you're lost, because he will reinforce faster than you can.

peace,
lilnev

 

[EEE_BOY]

Site B is good once you add a lighthouse. The lake water tiles will produce 3 food, which are enough to work the gold mine. The rest grassland can be cottaged, makes it a great commerce city but low production.

 

[uberfish]

Jaguars would seem a better option than chariots once IW comes in in two turns.

I actually like the old barbarian city spot to claim the clams+gold and it leaves space for another city to use the lake+lighthouse later.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Only coastal city can build lighthouse. City near SMALL lake can't build lighthouse so the lake water tiles only produce 2 food.

From the update post, i didn't see any french worker working near the border, so i doubt you can capture enough workers to improve the newly-conquered land from france. maybe build a few workers before the war starts and improve the land around your core cities. once the war ends , those workers are the best aid to your economy.

 

[aelf]

What? People were all for attacking Louis asap, and now you guys are saying no

If we're going to do it, I reckon we should do it in about 10 turns.

Get those hills mined! It kills me to see so many unimproved tiles being worked. And yet I see two unnecessary road tiles by the capital (due N and E of it; they won't speed up any conceivable movement path).

Many? I counted one. And that's only for a while. I usually chop and road to save movement points, unless there's something extremely urgent for my workers to do. That's why those roads are there.

I actually like the old barbarian city spot to claim the clams+gold and it leaves space for another city to use the lake+lighthouse later.

The barb city actually auto-razed. But you have a good point. Argh, now I'm even more confused!

 

[Mutineer]

You probably want to build altar fast in capital.
Currently you often do not work your best food tie, at the same time you work a lot of unimproved ties.

Your capital is size 6, you can wipe Altar after first 30 shields.
If Altar work for units,then after that you can abuse units whipe in capital. That is probably fastest way to get an army up.

 

[aelf]

at the same time you work a lot of unimproved ties.

What's with this? Are forests considered unimproved tiles?

 

[shadow2k]

What's with this? Are forests considered unimproved tiles?

Yeah, I'd think so... Compare the plains forest you're currently working to a mined grassland hill. You could be working the pigs and the mined grassland hill instead of the two forests you're currently working for the same amount of hammers, but 3 more food. Or you could do a mined plains hill and the pigs for 2 food and 1 hammer. Either way, more total food/production out of your citizens. I realize you're slowing growth because of happy issues, but you could be working a couple mined plains hills for a lot more hammers, and just switch back to the pigs when you need to grow.

I don't really understand the north road either. I know in C3 it was common for everyone to road every tile their worker moved to. But we have 2 move workers, so that doesn't always apply here. Depending on where you're coming from when you need to return to that tile, you may not be saving anything at all. And to get to where you needed to be (any of the three hills), you could have done in one turn without the road.

I have no idea how you put up with all this nitpicking. I can just imagine if I posted one of my games in detail. Oh, the horror.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Your capital is size 6, you can wipe Altar after first 30 shields.
If Altar work for units,then after that you can abuse units whipe in capital. That is probably fastest way to get an army up.

Altars are 90 hammers only, so the capital can whip one right now.

 

[Mutineer]

Lets see. Useal grassland farm near river produce 3 food, 1 commerce.

When whiping size 4 city with granary one converce 12+13= 25 food into 60 shields. That 2.4 shields/ food.

So, you can emagin grassland farm as a tie with 2 food + 2.4 shields + 1 commerce.

Beat a lot 1 food 2 shields plain forest tie.
Now, take a look on your + 5 and + 6 food ties.

5 food tie = 2 food + 7.2 shields
6 food tie = 2 food + 9.6 shields.

That how many shields you loosing when not working food ties. Mach more then 3 plain forest give you.

So, you capital could be mach more productive at size 4, converting excess food into shield strue slavery, then at size 6 converting only part of excess food into shields true 1 food-2 shields palin forest conversion.

You missing a lot of producting by not whipping. Grassland forest actially better tie from slavery poit of view.
For example, settler could be whiped when something like 61 shields left for 3 population and have addition 29shields + 3 pop food suplas (in you case 3+2+1) = 6 shields be ready as overflow for next thin.

Problem is, you missing all this opportunities, as you did not even bother building granary yet.

You need to learn to live on whipe overflow as a system.

For example, temples are perfect whipe overflow thin. You probably was better use conf missionary to get second religion in your capital.
porfect opportunity to convers get 15 shields overflow from temple. As temples are happiness free and food is in axcess, they are just shield production buildings.

Learn to use slavery to it's full potential.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

The metal-less, horse-less French must be spanked, now. Since we have horses, bronze and jaguars, it shouldn't be much of a problem. I say reduce them to 2-city buffer.

Founding the third city on the coast is a good idea, as it will open trade and religion spread to the rest of the continent, once it is connected to the capital. At any rate, more workers are needed for the empire, as the two now are falling behind in the to-do list.

 

[DaviddesJ]

I useally do converting the turn I discover early religion, to minimise production loss.

When you're not spiritual, you don't gain anything by converting earlier. One lost turn is one lost turn, whether you lose the turn when your capital is small or when it's big. You end up at exactly the same point, in the end.

The best time to convert (if early happiness is not needed) is immediately after you build your first settler, and before you found your second city. This way, your capital still loses one turn (which will happen whatever you do), but your second city doesn't lose any turns.

 

[aelf]

Erm. We don't have Pottery yet. How can we build granaries? Also, we only have 1 plain forest in our capital. And I assure you I'm whipping everytime whip weariness goes away. I'm only slowing growth because there's whip weariness. And, from what I can see, our tile configuration is not too bad even without mines. We are growing at the right pace at the right time. We probably need some mines soon, but it's not a national emergency.

PS: Please read the updates more closely, guys.

 

[aelf]

Hmm... Production-wise grassland mine definitely beats plain forest, so I think we should get one up soon. However, nothing is better than grassland forest at this stage of the game. I can't think of anything that gives 2F and hammers.

 

[Galileo44]

I can't think of anything that gives 2F and hammers.

Only things I can think of are grassland watermill(much later), SP grassland workshop(much, much later), grassland-hill windmill(much later), and metal/mined luxuries on flat grassland.

So, yeah at this stage, no 2Food + hammer tiles.

 

[Winston Hughes]

The metal-less, horse-less French must be spanked, now. Since we have horses, bronze and jaguars, it shouldn't be much of a problem. I say reduce them to 2-city buffer.

Founding the third city on the coast is a good idea, as it will open trade and religion spread to the rest of the continent, once it is connected to the capital. At any rate, more workers are needed for the empire, as the two now are falling behind in the to-do list.

That pretty much sums up my opinion, especially with regards to the French. With plenty of space as yet unsettled, I'd say Louis is probably still in his expansion phase, and so will be wasting hammers building settlers rather than troops. He'll also be sending his precious defenders off to escort the settlers. Strike now, before he attends to his lacklustre military.

As for the sacrificial altars, it's merely a question of whether they will speed up or slow down your preparations for war. If you only need an extra 6-7 units for the time being, my guess is that you'll probably have your armies ready earlier if you leave the altars 'til afterwards (you'll need to do the maths to be certain). If you feel more troops will be needed, then the altars might speed things up; but be careful not to overprepare, and end up leaving the attack too late.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Hmm... Production-wise grassland mine definitely beats plain forest, so I think we should get one up soon. However, nothing is better than grassland forest at this stage of the game. I can't think of anything that gives 2F and hammers.

Two grassland forests = 4f 2h

One grassland hill mine + one grassland farm = 4f 3h.

That's why mines and farms are better than forests.

If you only have one free citizen, you can have it work the farm on even-numbered turns and the mine on odd-numbered turns, to get 2f 1.5h per turn, which is better than working the forest all the time to get 2f 1h per turn.

 

[lilnev]

I have no idea how you put up with all this nitpicking.

Yeah, it is kind of nitpicking. And if I offended you by my tone, aelf, then I apologize. But as you move up in difficulty, the little efficiencies become more important. I've certainly learned some things from these games (especially re: diplomacy), so if I see something that I think could be done better, I get the didactic urge to point it out.

Back to the game, I think the capital (hate these Aztec city names) wants a sac altar because of it's food surplus. Alternatively, use that food to spit out another worker or two in between whips. Pottery has to be a high priority, for granaries but also cottages. After abusing the French, you're going to be rich in land but struggling for commerce. I'm worried that if you try for Alphabet directly, your economy will crash before you get there (from unit costs and cities that don't yet pay for themselves). Cottages can help you grow out of that trap. The alternative is to run scientists off libraries; but this is not a food-rich world, which makes that difficult under a low happy-cap. Or maybe I'm just more comfortable with cottages than specialists.

peace,
lilnev