The Immortal University II - Suryavarman II of Khmer

[BurN]

I have a divided opinion on the start. Plain hill start and forrest plain hill to work means fast worker right of the bat. The problem is there is no point on getting a worker out fast considering all the forest. Still it might be possible to get 2x scout+worker out before BW is done, which would give good scouting and overview of the map.

If there is marble or stone nearby, I will probably go for wonders with a hammer heavy capital like this. If not .. I hope for some really nice city spots where I can block of the AI. If I think I can't grab enough land from this position, it will be an axe or chariot rush.

But all will become clear once I start playing. (I hope )

 

[Rusten]

Great start, will result in very different opening games I believe

I'm going to have to sit down and think a couple of minutes before I decide what to do for this one.

 

[Olodune]

I'm going to have to sit down and think a couple of minutes before I decide what to do for this one.

That's as far as I've gotten on this one

 

[Johan^^]

Started the game and played until 1080BC. The start aint all bad and ill expect alot of different openings from this one

4000BC - 1080BC

Spoiler :

Didnt take alot of screenshots, it all just happend very fast Though with this start my first though was, CHOP AND KILL and it didnt take long until i meet the pushing bag, aka Louis.... hmmmmm seems like this has happend just recently with the same outcome as now

Pup´ed Wheel from hut. Pupéd ~40 gold. Pup´ed 3 scouts and alot of maps

My research path was BW / AH / IW / archery / Writing (to get lib for science to recover + GS) / AC / Pottery

Build was : Worker, Barrack(until pop 2), Settler (working both elephants) until AH came online. Then another worker + rest of Barrack.

Settled 2. city fast grabbing clam, Cow, Copper and come nice land with lots of tree for chopping . Then i went to war with 4 Swords, 2 Axes, 1 archer and just keept chopping Swords.

Yep a GG before 1000BC

Ill let the pictures tell the rest....

Comments and suggestions are well come.

To my east i got alot of free land and so does Jao II, so either i try to grab that now or he will be the dominent AI in this game...

To the Northwest i got 2 PROTECTIVE AI´s, which just does not go well with my intended warfare. So maybe ill just expand in peace. China and Gilla.

 

[Rusten]

Up until 3320 BC:

Figured a short set at first was suitable for this map.

Spoiler :

First thing that became apparent when opening the game was that there was no food to our east and south in the BFC (forests). With that in mind:

Turn 0:
- I sent our scout north and found nothing.
- Sent our settler 1 west as I wouldn't lose any food either way (found no food).

I decided that it would be hard to find a worse spot than where we started, so I went looking for a better one.

Turn 1:
- Sent the scout west and found no food
- Sent the settler 1 west -> 1 SW onto forest and found nothing

Still nothing in sight. At this point I'm getting really scared of losing turns for nothing.

Turn 2:
-move scout 2 NW and found Clams (hooray!!!)
- move settler onto forest towards clams and find flood plains (1N 1NW)

Turn 3:
- scout onto hill
- Settler 1 NW flood plains and locate plains cow. It's now obvious where to settle. Move 1 NE.

Here's what it looked like at the end of turn 3:



Turn 4: settle 1 SW of clams also getting flood plains, cows and river ivory.

It looked a little bad at one point there. Especially after turn 1 seeing both south and north, but in the end I'm happy with the result. This will be a decent capital and the 4 turns are worth it imo.

3320 BC: Deja vu! Yet again we're close to Louis and yet again he has Gold in his capital. I smell a repeat of last game (early rush).

 

[Solon70]

If you settle 1 NE it looks like you'll be on the coast as well as having fresh water. Even though this isn't as bad as most "1 off the coast" positions because you don't have any water tiles if you settle in place, I still think it's worth considering that move.

 

[Rusten]

2nd round; 3320 BC -> 425 BC

Spoiler :

It turns out my capital move was even better than expected. I wouldn't be surprised if people thought I was cheating, because at 2400 BC we discover copper (!!) in our BFC, you're just going to have to take my word for it; I had no idea. To top things off I even get the random even which supplies Cover for all meelee troops. I don't like repeating games and strats, but it would just be foolish not to rush Louis given the circumstances. At least I can show that rushing works perfectly fine in BTS as well, and it's not a Warlords phenomena. The AI is getting more troops, but a well-timed rush will still beat them down usually.

I'm really amazed by this map, there are almost no food resources. A peaceful REX will be tough for those that do that apporach.

850 BC: We've declared war on Louis.

775 BC:

700 BC:

Partisan warriors. That means that we got his metal supply and it's within one of those new cities (and it's iron, because I'd see it if it was bronze).

Things get a little quiet for a couple of centuries as I want to extort techs from Louis when we sign peace. The AIs are teching very fast this game. QSH having at least 1 source of gems in his capital and Louis having gold+corn is probably the reason. Kinda funny to compare their starting locations to ours.

475 BC:

raze:

keep:

Now he's left with 1 city (I think) and we see what we can get for peace.
- I try Alphabet+IW+Mathematics -> he refuses
- I try Alphabet+Mathematics -> he accepts (yay!)
Next turn we get IW from Joao for mathematics.

Empire at 425 BC:

Successful rush yet again. Only 5 turn left for currency and like last time we've got our hands on a holy city, but no shrine. Louis didn't make any wonders this time either (maybe he was at 95% of the Pyramids when I attacked?! )

Edit: Forgot to mention that 2 turns or so after declaring on Louis QSH declared on me. Obviously Louis bribed him with techs. Bad move by QSH though (unless he got a lot); I captured a city of his north of my capital (size 1 guarded by a chariot). Didn't get any diplo penalty either as it was so small.

 

[Sleepless]

2880 BC Early post so I can see Rusten's start.

Spoiler :

Well I decided to settle in place. First build went scout then worker while teching AH. Important to get all our food resources up as quickly as possible.

With Louis this close an early war is likely. I didn't rush last game but will attempt it this game. So no horses handy on to BW. Just finished BW and there looks a nice site to the NW. (Just read Rustens start, thats where I'm aiming for) So trying to get an early settler out to claim the bronze. I won't be using slavery for a while though

Popped gold, 2 scouts (lost 1 to an animal), Fishing handy for the clam, and exp.

Plan is to build some axes, then some more, then visit Louis.

Our start. Louis founded Bud, Tok Hindu, I hope Bod founds Jud then that will keep them busy for a long while.

Back to the game.

 

[schwartz]

Even though immortal is well beyond me, I gave this game a shot (a good learning experience, maybe):
Goes to 900 BC but my scouting is really poor, I got whacked by a bear pretty early.

Spoiler :

Well as most of you probably will, given the proximity of metal, I rushed Louis with 11 axes by ~1000 BC. I razed Lyons close to my border (partisan warriors, means he has no metal), then moved towards Paris in 900 BC, I had 8 axes in position and:

I kind of lost heart after that, but I'll definitely follow this one as I did with the last. Good luck to everyone that plays.

 

[Rusten]

@schwartz

Spoiler :

Wow, that's evil for an immortal game. I also noticed very fast teching speeds but that's still crazy. Did the Oracle go late in the game? If so (and if Louis built it) then it explains the early longbowmen. Maybe you should give it another go from scratch, because that's simply bad luck.

 

[Jet]

2920 BC

Spoiler :

Scout/Worker/Scout, AH, BW, popped a Scout and HBR (!!) from huts, no resources in sight.

900 BC

Spoiler :

2 cities, 4 Workers clearcutting, 6 HAs, invaded Louis, razed his stupid 1 tile off the coast city, got the wounded soldier peace event and took it. Adopted Slavery and whipped Settler to replace his stupid ruins with Clam/Cow/Copper/Phants. An event-spawned stack of barb Axes was nearby and I misjudged how road and river movement would work, because they walked around my stack of HAs and killed my Settler. (But I didn't get any message about it in the log... ). Meanwhile Chinese and French Settlers were approaching the site. It's only one Settler, but my preference is usually to resign after big disappointments like that, and I did.

 

[schwartz]

Rusten:

Spoiler :

The oracle went in 975 BC . I've never seen it go that late, even on Monarch.. Unbelieveable considering the two industrious civs.
I may restart and play from scratch, gotta go start a Monarch game or something and make sure Louis is right next to me first
EDIT: Don't know who built it, but it must've been Louis, I don't think even Deity AIs can self-tech Feudalism that fast. Unless he made a really hard beeline for it
And my initial build was Worker -> archer x2 -> settler -> barracks -> archer -> axes and tech was BW -> Archery (hut) -> AH -> Wheel -> Ag -> Fishing -> Pottery

 

[Gliese 581]

schwartz:

Spoiler :

That's really rough, 900 BC 11 Axemen is a fast axerush. I agree with Rusten, you got really unlucky there.

 

[schwartz]

Gliese:

Spoiler :

We're lucky enough to have close metal and two solid production sites to get some early axes out

 

[Olodune]

Finding Suryavarman a home

Up to 1960BC

Spoiler :

I really don't know what to do with this start, so I settle in place. Chasing the river is another option, but I decline.

AH will take 14 turns to research so:

Warrior->Worker is queued up.

BW is selected after AH, and I grow to size 2, and start chopping out settlers/workers.

By 1960bc we know BW/AH/Pottery/Fishing/Ag and have settled four cities. Copper has been claimed and it 2 turns from being connected. We've met all but one of the AI's as well.

Southern Khmer Domain:

The North:

I think we're doing alright, Louis will have to be dealt with eventually, but I probably wont rush the fella.

 

[Olodune]

@Jet

Spoiler :

Too bad about those barbarians ... I really dislike those events (especially with such erratic behaviour ). Looked like a promising game with the HBR pop.

 

[Nares]

4000 B.C. - 2000 B.C.

Spoiler :

I would consider popping the hut with the scout in the hopes of getting a map.

Settled 1W of the start. My scout indeed popped a map from the goody hut.

Set to work building a scout then worker, and researching Animal Husbandry.

Second scout pops Masonry from the hut NW of capital in 3760 B.C.

Tech path went Animal Husbandry, Agriculture, Bronze Working.

First scout pops a partially (almost fully) researched Agriculture in 3280 B.C.

After building a pasture on the Sheep, I sent my worker to build a camp on the Ivory. While researching Bronze Working, I built my first settler. Some turns were spent working the camped Ivory, rather than the pastured Sheep, to complete Bronze Working and the settler on the same turn.

In 2760 B.C. Khmer inventors provided us with a brilliant advancement in warfare technology.

That should make the upcoming conquest of Louis much easier.

I settled my second city 1NW of the cows northwest of the capital. It seemed to be the best site, grabbing cows, the flood plains, clams and copper.

I'm glad that Louis probably won't be putting pressure on the copper, and can't touch the fish. In fact, his next cultural expansions should only take grassland forest tiles, though I believe that is Paris to our west.

After completing Bronze Working, I teched Archery, Fishing, The Wheel, and have started on Pottery. My first build in the second city was a warrior. After completing him, I did not yet have Fishing, so I began on a settler. Being a dummy, I forgot to switch to a work boat as soon as fishing came in.

I chopped three additional workers, who are now busy upgrading tiles and hooking up the copper. One chop went to completing a barracks, and I'm now building my first archer in the capital.

Spoiler :

What are people's thoughts on settling 1W for dual river access? Is it worth the turn, given the risk that one or both rivers are short or very short?

Time to leverage that dual river access. I need to decide on where to place my third city, the final one before initiating hostilities with Louis. I'm looking at 3S of the capital. It's on the river, and shares the Sheep tile with the capital. I'm hoping to use that to grow to size two while waiting on grassland farms for further growth.

I also need to consider how to get at Louis. He researched Writing before me, and has offered my an open border agreement. I'm currently sending my remaining scout to explore his lands. I'm thinking of researching Iron Working next, and then heading directly to Construction, followed by Monarchy.

However, I'm unsure how to handle an early war with an Immortal AI. I'm going to be heavily outproduced, find it reasonably difficult to goad the AI into attacking your units, and find the idea of a pillage war without chariots unpalatable.

I still haven't swapped to Slavery because the start is so food poor, but the clams/cow/flood plains combo might bring it out soon.

@Rusten

Spoiler :

Why not 1W of the position you settled in? AI suggested, and cuts down on the number of water tiles, while still grabbing all the good stuff.

 

[Gliese 581]

Nares:

Spoiler :

Your second city is interesting. Why not settle 1E on the plains? It would give you access to the ivory and use up a plains tile instead of a grassland tile and waste less land. I see your argument on less water tiles but do you think that balance against the other factors this early?

 

[Nares]

@Gliese

Spoiler :

I see your argument on less water tiles but do you think that balance against the other factors this early?

Besides the 1T forest travel factor, absolutely. Fewer water tiles, and it's better placed to defend against Louis' culture. Louis can't place a city to grab the cows from me, and is very unlikely to place a city to grab that copper from me.

Losing the riverside grassland for a riverside plains is just that, a loss. But I'm unlikely to be working a cottage in this city for a reasonably significant period of time. I'll probably swap to Slavery once this city has the Clams hooked up, and begin whipping out units.

Thinking back on it, building a settler there was probably the worst decision. I should have put hammers into a barracks, instead.

As for losing the Ivory, I couldn't care less. Those plains Ivory offer some nice options for the capital. I have one camped and two farmed currently, but I'm thinking of putting a cottage on one. This "limbo" Ivory is a guaranteed source for happiness, and I can farm or cottage the other three as I see fit.

I'm leaning towards farming, with the food poor start. I'm researching Pottery currently, not so much for cottages, but for a granary in the capital.

 

[Olodune]

Suryavarman the Martian, Chapter 2

1960bc-250ad

Spoiler :

Well, we spent too much hammers on settlers for an early rush, nonetheless Louis always has to die in the Immortal University threads.

So Mathematics->Masonry->Construction is mapped out.

I had some bad luck with tech trades. Math only was able to fetch IW. When I was three turns from Construction only one AI had it -- three turns later and only Joao didn't have it. Got alphabet from him.

Louis techs Feudalism fairly early (~400bc), but cats should help us out.

At 150bc, we're ready. Our army counts as ~10% more powerful than Louis' so we should be good. In we go:

Paris is weak:

Orleans has much better defenders:

I take a few more French cities, leaving Louis with two (a wimpy hill city) and a captured barb city to the east. Currency + Mono come with the peace deal

The war went well.

I lost:
8 axes
8 cats
2 swords

Louis lost:
11 lbows
5 axes
4 swords
2 HA
2 chars
2 cats

The numbers would look better it I didn't loose a small stack of five units in a failed attack.

War Bounty
Great Wall
Great Lighthouse
Unshrined Confucian holy city
Academy
Settled GG
11 workers

Our Empire:

Tech position:

I plan on killing Louis when our treaty is up, hopefully he's still independent by then.

I did trade Aesthetics around, but may still try for the SoZ and the S. Paya.

Diplomatically I'm a little troubled that Joao, Boudica, and Toku are all Buddhist. Gilgamesh built a Jewish AP, I have two Jewish cities.

I think I'm in good shape so far.