The Inner Workings of the UN and Diplomatic Victory

[aelf]

The problem, like you mentioned, is that different multipliers apply to cities in different stages of development (eg. some have university, others don't), so there's no way to know the net effect of those wonders. I want to see just how much extra commerce and science I am getting empire-wide, with different multipliers and all, from them. If we could find out the correct numbers (instead of just estimating them), it would be useful for judging just how well the strategy worked.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

I've done a little more digging on this, and there are at least 2 hidden factors that impact the AI attitude (there may be others). One is related to the handicap (difficulty level), and the other is specific to each leader.

The handicap adjustments are as shown below.

+2 on Settler
+1 on Chieftain
+0 on Warlord
-1 on Noble, Prince, Monarch, Emperor, Immortal, and Deity
​

This means that, ignoring the other issues like the leader attitude adjustment, before it will vote for you an AI needs at least a +6 attitude on Settler, +7 on Chieftain, +8 on Warlord, and +9 on any other difficulty.

The leader numbers are as follows. These are from Warlords. I doubt any of these changed from Civ IV Classic, but I didn't check.

+2 for Gandhi

+1 for Asoka, Bismarck, Catherine, Cyrus, Elizabeth, Frederick, Hatshepsut, Mansa Musa, Qin Shi Huang, and Franklin Roosevelt

0 for Alexander, Augustus, Churchill, Hannibal, Huayna Capac, Julius Caesar, Kublai Khan, Louis XIV, Chinese Leader, Peter, Ramesses, Saladin, Victoria, Wang Kon, and Washington

-1 for Brennus, Genghis Khan, Isabella, Mehmed, Montezuma, Napoleon, Ragnar, Shaka, Stalin, and Tokugawa
​

"Chinese Leader" appears to be Mao. I'm not sure why the XML doesn't use his name directly.

In an extreme case, you could look up the adjustment for each leader in your game to make sure you have enough positives, but I think the easier approach is to simply remember that the worst case scenario is a -1 attitude adjustment. Therefore, as long as you have a +10 on difficulties Normal and above, you should be OK regardless of leader.

One final note. There are a few other factors in the function that I haven't quantified yet, so even the +10 example above isn't 100% accurate. In the absence of things like "warmonger respect" (whatever that is), it's correct, but don't come crying to me if you have a game where some AI with a +10 attitude doesn't vote for you. I told you so.

 

[Gen.Rommel]

The relationship modifiers of gifting technologies - unlike those for religion and favorite civics - are instant. The "our trades have been fair and forthright" effect goes from +1 to +4 and can be had relatively cheap, i.e. if you gift a tech when it's current; however I believe it deteriorates over time. To get the permanent "you shared your technological discoveries with us" you need to give quite a few technologies before seeing any results. Don't know the details, but don't count on getting this in one go; sometimes you need to gift in waves because the recipient needs to have the prerequisite techs for one turn to even be able to accept the gift.



Don't know about warlords, but my gut feel for the threshold to get +1 "fair and forthright" is somewhere in the 500s - this may be relative to the gold in circulation though.

I am always able to get good relations just by giving gold, i usually give at least 3k gold, and that gives me an automatic +4 boost in relations. This is while playing Warlords.

 

[cabert]

I am always able to get good relations just by giving gold, i usually give at least 3k gold, and that gives me an automatic +4 boost in relations. This is while playing Warlords.

and after that, people complain about the UN to be corrupted

 

[Pinstar]

If a civ sort-of likes you (Maybe +3/+4 ish) but doesn't like the other civ (0 or lower) will they vote for you?

Is goading a civ into war with your opponent a good way to sour relations between those two and thus encourage the civ to vote for you?

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

If a civ sort-of likes you (Maybe +3/+4 ish) but doesn't like the other civ (0 or lower) will they vote for you?

No. As has been mentioned in some of the previous posts, they need to have at least a +8 attitude after various adjustments. Gandhi on Settler difficulty gets a +4 modifier, so I guess theoretically he could vote for you with only a +4 attitude, but for any other leader on any other difficulty +3/+4 ish isn't good enough. In general, you need at least +10 to be sure of a vote.

 

[aelf]

Are you talking about voting you for victory? In my experience, an AI might vote you as Secretary General but not vote for your victory. Does anything in the SDK substantiate this? Any difference in requirements for the two? I'm not so sure because lately the AIs who vote for my election have been willing to vote for my victory too.

 

[cabert]

Are you talking about voting you for victory? In my experience, an AI might vote you as Secretary General but not vote for your victory. Does anything in the SDK substantiate this? Any difference in requirements for the two? I'm not so sure because lately the AIs who vote for my election have been willing to vote for my victory too.

the OP's first 2 posts show a difference.
A difference of +7!
So you need only to be somewhat pleaseant in an AI's eye to be SG, but you need to be at +8 (or more for higher levels) at least to be victorious.

 

[Dr Elmer Jiggle]

Are you talking about voting you for victory?

I'm not sure if "you" means me or Pinstar, but I was talking about victory. Yes, the conditions for the Secretary General vote are slightly different. It uses the same basic procedure, but the base threshold is +1 instead of +8. There are still the various adjustments for difficulty, leader, and other poorly understood factors, but clearly they can be much less friendly and still vote for you in the Secretary General elections. Most of the time a +2 or +3 would be sufficient to get you in as Secretary General.

FYI, the other votes all use completely different mechanisms. Secretary General and victory use a simple attitude threshold, but the civics votes are based on some kind of "do I actually want this?" calculation that varies from resolution to resolution.