The israeli-Palestinian conflict from a Belgian point of view.

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Well ,i think it's time for me to give it a try.i gona give you my countr's point of view on this whole ridicules conflict.UN-CENSORED ,so get ready ,because this is going to get nasty ,and people will be offended.

Country's having their involvment in the conflict.

ISRAEL: Sharon: Better known in this country as "the hypocrit".Condem's the killing of ten Israeli's by a car bom ,call's it "terrorism".Order's his land and airfoce to "slash and burn" in the middle of the palestinian territory's ,with a result of 100 to 1000 death's,call's it "justified retaliation against "terrorism"".has been elected by the most right-wing conservative in the middle of palestian territory livving "settler's".As thus ,must continue this war at all cost.Break's up just recently all diplomatic contact with the Palestinian authority's (well ,atleast he's pushing for diplomatic resolvement )

Palestina: Arafat: Better known in this country as "the corrupt old basterd".doesn't give a damn about his country unless it add's to his power/position.Support's a "personal guard" wich he usses to engage in a lot of "lucrative bussineses".Has no power at all over Terrorist organization's in his country.

America: Bush: better known in this country as "the dumb one who think's Iraq is a neighbouring country of Israel and afhanistan".Has one big enemy: Terrorism (come's in handy when re-election's come).as no interest at all in the underlying factor's that lead to terrorism ,but know's only retaliation.Give's Sharon free hand in his action's against the palestinian people ,as good old friends afcourse.Is the only external person that can push the two party's to peace.But he doesn't give a damn.In fact ,doesn't want to give Arafat a hand.Nice work of objective diplomacy.

Europe: Every parlement in, europe except Belgium: Bettezr known as "the pussy's".They have an "objective view" on the conflict ,act as "the good old wise Europe".But play the puppy's or pet's of America when it come's to it.Nice idea's ,no ball's.

Belgium: Better known here as we ,ourselfs.Don't give a damn how other country's think of us.We play the wise old diplomatic experienced and moral side.The only country that try's to pull Mr. Sharon for it's own Human right's tribunal for Sharon's atrocity's in Shabra and Chatilla.Are economicly sanctioned by America because we won't bend to their views.We may be small ,but we won't let us be pushed around by evil superpower's.We have ball's.

The victim's: the palestinian and Israeli people.Pushed around and brainwashed by their goverment's.terrorized by the conflict.Angry and frightend at the same time.

Mr Sharon ,hear this ,Belgium will whoop your ass.Even if it lead's to an European-American diplomatic conflict.The bossy days of America are over.Europe is getting it's own voice ,and Belgium is pushing it.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders
Well ,i think it's time for me to give it a try.i gona give you my countr's point of view on this whole ridicules conflict.UN-CENSORED ,so get ready ,because this is going to get nasty ,and people will be offended.

Country's having their involvment in the conflict.

ISRAEL: Sharon: Better known in this country as "the hypocrit".Condem's the killing of ten Israeli's by a car bom ,call's it "terrorism".Order's his land and airfoce to "slash and burn" in the middle of the palestinian territory's ,with a result of 100 to 1000 death's,call's it "justified retaliation against "terrorism"".has been elected by the most right-wing conservative in the middle of palestian territory livving "settler's".As thus ,must continue this war at all cost.Break's up just recently all diplomatic contact with the Palestinian authority's (well ,atleast he's pushing for diplomatic resolvement )

Palestina: Arafat: Better known in this country as "the corrupt old basterd".doesn't give a damn about his country unless it add's to his power/position.Support's a "personal guard" wich he usses to engage in a lot of "lucrative bussineses".Has no power at all over Terrorist organization's in his country.

America: Bush: better known in this country as "the dumb one who think's Iraq is a neighbouring country of Israel and afhanistan".Has one big enemy: Terrorism (come's in handy when re-election's come).as no interest at all in the underlying factor's that lead to terrorism ,but know's only retaliation.Give's Sharon free hand in his action's against the palestinian people ,as good old friends afcourse.Is the only external person that can push the two party's to peace.But he doesn't give a damn.In fact ,doesn't want to give Arafat a hand.Nice work of objective diplomacy.

Europe: Every parlement in, europe except Belgium: Bettezr known as "the pussy's".They have an "objective view" on the conflict ,act as "the good old wise Europe".But play the puppy's or pet's of America when it come's to it.Nice idea's ,no ball's.

Belgium: Better known here as we ,ourselfs.Don't give a damn how other country's think of us.We play the wise old diplomatic experienced and moral side.The only country that try's to pull Mr. Sharon for it's own Human right's tribunal for Sharon's atrocity's in Shabra and Chatilla.Are economicly sanctioned by America because we won't bend to their views.We may be small ,but we won't let us be pushed around by evil superpower's.We have ball's.

The victim's: the palestinian and Israeli people.Pushed around and brainwashed by their goverment's.terrorized by the conflict.Angry and frightend at the same time.

Mr Sharon ,hear this ,Belgium will whoop your ass.Even if it lead's to an European-American diplomatic conflict.The bossy days of America are over.Europe is getting it's own voice ,and Belgium is pushing it.

I agree with all of that, especially the Israel and Palestine ones. Why can't they just get along?

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders
America: Bush: better known in this country as "the dumb one who think's Iraq is a neighbouring country of Israel and afhanistan"

I hope you don't believe that.

 

[Ohwell]

From what I hear on Bush's policies over the news, he is truly a warmonger, and all he wants is revenge, and rmshape, you should realize the truth. It's too bad americans don't realize it.

 

[amadeus]

Care to tell me what "truth" you're talking about?

Secondly, I didn't want to have to say this, but...I don't think Germany's record is all that spotless when it comes to warmongering.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by rmsharpe
Care to tell me what "truth" you're talking about?

Secondly, I didn't want to have to say this, but...I don't think Germany's record is all that spotless when it comes to warmongering.

Well now, you DO know that the warmongering was done by Imperialistic Germany and the Nazi's, but not the current Democratic Germany. And secondly, The past Germany's were a warmongering people, so it was expected. America, however, are known to be peacemakers(Though not always). But Bush seems to me like a fightpicker. And don't get me wrong, I used to be an American. I am not an American basher.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

I hope you don't believe that.

I surely believe it.EVEN in AMERICA rumors arised in the beginning of his presidential term that he was not very "gifted" when it come's international kowledge and Diplomacy ,wich was spread through the American mass media.When Mass media say it that way in America ,in European media it translate's into: The new president of America know's jack sh1t when it come's to international relation's.and surely ,we have no interest in that.

About 1 to 2 week's ago On a international meeting ,G.W. Bush even didn't want to shake a hand with Arafat.Even later he refused it while the media was not present.
And this while the palestinian conflict is important factor in the battle of terrorism ,especialy in preventing it.
Everybody with comman sence in Europe know's that Sharon doesn't want peace at all cost.And Only America has the power to stop it with diplomatic resolve.But Bush pick's Sharon's side as ye good old friend ,and give's thereby Sharon the possibilety To escalet the conflict more and more into an etnic war ,Where Sharon thake's the principle of fighting terrorism to retaliate with full millitary force.

 

[Ohwell]

Very true. Bush should have, as a US president, the knowledge to settle the dispute diplomaticley. But he took a passive role, letting Isreal do atrocities to Palestine. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

 

[CrayonX]

...and now the US can't say anything since Israel is using the same terrorism rhetoric against Palestine as they did...

...something tells me India's gonna try to pull the same thing with the Kashmir conflict, especially with that parlimentary shootout the other day...

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders
About 1 to 2 week's ago On a international meeting ,G.W. Bush even didn't want to shake a hand with Arafat.Even later he refused it while the media was not present.

I'm damn glad he didn't.

It'd be like Jimmy Carter shaking the hand of the Ayatollah Khomeini.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Reminds me of the quote from 'The Wizard of Oz':
"And what would you do with a brain if you had one?"

Your arguments make no sense, though doubtless you would argue otherwise. Let me get this straight:

"Mr Sharon ,hear this ,Belgium will whoop your ass.Even if it lead's to an European-American diplomatic conflict.The bossy days of America are over.Europe is getting it's own voice ,and Belgium is pushing it."

It must be nice to live in such a dream world. Such a situation will never happen, and Belgium is among the very minor players in international affairs. Your attacks on Sharon were more vehement and bitter than those on Arafat, which was quite amusing. It's all well and good to have an opinion, but when it is as farcical as this one, it begs for rebuttal and criticism.

Answer then these questions:
What caused the Middle East situation?
How is it to be solved?
Why will they listen to Belgium?

"Belgium: Better known here as we ,ourselfs.Don't give a damn how other country's think of us.We play the wise old diplomatic experienced and moral side.The only country that try's to pull Mr. Sharon for it's own Human right's tribunal for Sharon's atrocity's in Shabra and Chatilla.Are economicly sanctioned by America because we won't bend to their views.We may be small ,but we won't let us be pushed around by evil superpower's.We have ball's."

Were you consuming illicit substances in large amounts before you wrote this, particularly the last part. It is so ridiculous it is funny

 

[PinkyGen]

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders


I surely believe it.EVEN in AMERICA rumors arised in the beginning of his presidential term that he was not very "gifted" when it come's international kowledge and Diplomacy ,wich was spread through the American mass media.When Mass media say it that way in America ,in European media it translate's into: The new president of America know's jack sh1t when it come's to international relation's.and surely ,we have no interest in that.

Why must I defend Bush? I didn't even vote for him.

The media does this to all President. When Clinton was running, it was said he learned about International affairs at the International House of Pancakes. (IHOP). Govenor's who run states do not know much about foreign policy. Hopefully, he will learn in office.

As for not shaking hands with Arafat, that was sending a message, which Arafat ignored. The only one who could stop the violence was Arafat, but he didn't, and we were showing we disaproved of this. It was a good move.

Ohwell, your ideas about a militaristic America forgoing diplomacy is laughable. In reference to Afghanistan, I don't think diplomacy would cut it. In reference to Israel, diplomacy has been going on for years, and not resulted in much with regard to the Palestinians.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

This thread is quite borderline, but some points here are accurate, and others just plain silly.

First, the barbs at GW Bush are just stupid, and they started before 9/11, you would be better served to look at his record as president, then to fall prey to left-leaning newspeople (This seems common in Europe, you accept what you hear as gosspil, and seem to ignore the record). The man has done a good job as US president, under extremly difficult circumstances.

Next is Belgum's postion.
Not to insult you, but Belgum has some rather nasty incedents in it's past (the Congo in the early 60s) that are far worse then the Accusations (yes, accusations, not facts) about Sharon in Lebbenon in 82, a place I happened to be at that time (another story, which I won't relate), so don't be so quick to grab the moral high ground.

Arrafat.
The man is scum, a terrorist since before I was born, and I believe NOTHING he says.

The Europeans
I would hardly say they are lacking in conviction (and a moderator warning here, watch the langauge, if you can't say it better, don't post), and they certainly look after their own interests, calling them USA pawns is just plain silly.

Retaliation by IDF
I have never seen hundreds or thousands killed by the Israeli military, that is just non-sense. If someone blew up a bus load of children in Brussels, and you knew it was, say Luxembourg behind it, you say you would do nothing? If you tried diplomacy, yet the Luxembourgers ignored you and lied to you, you would just wring your hands impotatantly? I think not, and this is Israel's delemma. Too many un-informed bleeding hearts (like in this thread, for example) yelling about Israel, when it's the Pals who cause an end to diplomancy with terror bombings. If I was a jew, I would kill them all.

Sharon as war criminal
This is an unproven accusation by the palestianians, not a proven fact. He is accused of being military comander of an area where atrocites may have occured, and even this is conjectural. If Belgium was really so pious, why are they not calling for Arrafat, a documented terrorist, to appear?
Seems certain nations always prefer to take the anti-Jewish side in all things, as you now see, objectivity is really point of view.

Remember, discuss, don't troll, and I'll be watching this closly, as always.

 

[geake]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
This thread is quite borderline, but some points here are accurate, and others just plain silly.

Sharon as war criminal
This is an unproven accusation by the palestianians, not a proven fact. He is accused of being military comander of an area where atrocites may have occured, and even this is conjectural. If Belgium was really so pious, why are they not calling for Arrafat, a documented terrorist, to appear?
Seems certain nations always prefer to take the anti-Jewish side in all things, as you now see, objectivity is really point of view.

Well it's a good point you raise. It is an unproven accusation. So why not investigate? And why do you accuse Belgium of being on the anti-jewish side?
You tell us to watch our language, you should do that yourself. In this matter, Belgium is not being anti-jewish since they propose a trial. If Sharon is innocent, then he has nothing to fear.

Belgium does something great, just as great as what did that spanish judge when he wanted to judge Pinochet. The world has to put an end to this state of fact that the war criminals are those who lose the wars. Simply acknowledging this is a moral victory. Carrying it out would be a miracle.

 

[Sultan Bhargash]

Thanks for making me aware of this, Duck. I used to kid my Belgian friend about what a great job they did with the Congo, but I do know from extensive world travels that 1: America is ugly, and got way uglier with the coup detat from Bush, 2: Israel and the United States have killed more innocent people than all of the Muslims in every country in every age everywhere put together, 3: sensible Europeans like yourself give hope to those of us Americans who hope that the light of reason will someday outshine the dark fascism we have devolved into. Vive la Belgium, I hope you can try Bush in your courts some day!

 

[rikishi2002]

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders


ISRAEL: Sharon: Better known in this country as "the hypocrit".Condem's the killing of ten Israeli's by a car bom ,call's it "terrorism".Order's his land and airfoce to "slash and burn" in the middle of the palestinian territory's ,with a result of 100 to 1000 death's,call's it "justified retaliation against "terrorism"".has been elected by the most right-wing conservative in the middle of palestian territory livving "settler's".As thus ,must continue this war at all cost.Break's up just recently all diplomatic contact with the Palestinian authority's (well ,atleast he's pushing for diplomatic resolvement )

True, true [dance] [dance] Sharon's a reincarnation of Hitler! Remember the Nazi party's propaganda?

 

[Ohwell]

No, Sharon isn't hitler, but he needs a Military Tribunal, he is a terrorist in my eyes. As is Arafat. They should both be shot, and then maybe some competent people will take over.

Another thing, anyone want to kill Pakistan? I believe they wee responsible for recent Parliament attacks on India. Damn, US vs Afghanistan, Israel vs Palestine, and India vs Pakistsan. The US has set a bad example, now all these countryes are attacking eachother because they blame them for attacks. The world is truly a disaster.

 

[gjts00]

Duck...You are a fool.

 

[Ohwell]

Originally posted by PinkyGen


Ohwell, your ideas about a militaristic America forgoing diplomacy is laughable. In reference to Afghanistan, I don't think diplomacy would cut it. In reference to Israel, diplomacy has been going on for years, and not resulted in much with regard to the Palestinians.

I did not say that the United States should solve it diplomaticley. And I only said Bush was a warmonger, not the Americans as a whole. But even democratic nationals can be warmongers. I am saying the United States should not side with Israel for 2 reasons.

1. Israelis originally stole the land from Palestine, Jordan, and Egypt.

2. They are attacking Palestinians just as bad. You may not hear it because the Presidenst doesnt want you to hear it, but the Israelis have done terrorist acts to Palestine also.

ANd AMerica is becoming more militaristic, they have been involved in alomst every civil war and revolt since the 1950's. I condemn the US for meddling into affairs that have nothing to with them (Kosovo revolution, Somalia, etc.)

 

[G-Man]

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders

ISRAEL: Sharon: Better known in this country as "the hypocrit".Condem's the killing of ten Israeli's by a car bom ,call's it "terrorism".Order's his land and airfoce to "slash and burn" in the middle of the palestinian territory's ,with a result of 100 to 1000 death's,call's it "justified retaliation against "terrorism"".has been elected by the most right-wing conservative in the middle of palestian territory livving "settler's".As thus ,must continue this war at all cost.Break's up just recently all diplomatic contact with the Palestinian authority's (well ,atleast he's pushing for diplomatic resolvement )

Sharon: Retaliates to killing civilians by arresting and killing the terrorists responsible. Orders his airforce to destroy mortar producing factories, in an attack that killed 6 armed terrorists. Has been elected by a vast majority of 72% of Israel that wanna live and has established a national unity goverment that includes left wing parties. Has suffered countless lies from Arafat that costed Israel in hundreds of dead, and therefore must stop terrorists. Broke up diplomatic relations with Arafat when terrorists that Arafat said were in Jail killed ten Israelis and injured hundreds. Has done any thing posible to get a diplomatic solution, including one sided caese fires that were answered by Palestinian suicide bombers.

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders

The victim's: the palestinian and Israeli people.Pushed around and brainwashed by their goverment's.terrorized by the conflict.Angry and frightend at the same time.

Sure, I'm brain washed. After all, what normal person would like to go eat a pizza without getting killed?

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders

Mr Sharon ,hear this ,Belgium will whoop your ass.Even if it lead's to an European-American diplomatic conflict.The bossy days of America are over.Europe is getting it's own voice ,and Belgium is pushing it.

Sure, let's jail Sharon. What has he done exactly? He didn't kill anyone in Sabra and Shatila (You don't even know their names) and the soldiers under his command didn't do it. It wasn't even under Israeli control at the time.

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders

Europe: Every parlement in, europe except Belgium: Bettezr known as "the pussy's".They have an "objective view" on the conflict ,act as "the good old wise Europe".But play the puppy's or pet's of America when it come's to it.Nice idea's ,no ball's.

Might have something to do with the fact that when european foreign ministers visited Gaza Arafat showed them a terrorist in Jail, and 10 days later this terrorist blew himself up.

Originally posted by TheDuckOfFlanders

America: Bush: better known in this country as "the dumb one who think's Iraq is a neighbouring country of Israel and afhanistan".Has one big enemy: Terrorism (come's in handy when re-election's come).as no interest at all in the underlying factor's that lead to terrorism ,but know's only retaliation.Give's Sharon free hand in his action's against the palestinian people ,as good old friends afcourse.Is the only external person that can push the two party's to peace.But he doesn't give a damn.In fact ,doesn't want to give Arafat a hand.Nice work of objective diplomacy.

First of all, Sharon isn't attacking the Palestinian people and he really doesn't care if other countries will give him a free hand or not. He's Isrel PM, not Bush.
Also, being sobjective isn't always agreeing with both sides. When the Americans see Israel is only attacks after terror attacks they understand who's the aggressor.

Originally posted by rikishi2002

True, true Sharon's a reincarnation of Hitler! Remember the Nazi party's propaganda?

You're an idiot to say that, and even dumber to put dancing smilies in it. Sharon isn't gathering Palestinians in camp and isn't doing any genocide. And what propoganda are you talking about??!!

Originally posted by Ohwell

1. Israelis originally stole the land from Palestine, Jordan, and Egypt.

2. They are attacking Palestinians just as bad. You may not hear it because the Presidenst doesnt want you to hear it, but the Israelis have done terrorist acts to Palestine also.

1. Being attacked and winning the war isn't stealing, it's bravery. Also, the west bank ang Gaza were'nt taken from the Palestinians.

2. Sure, it's all the big bad goverment. Give me one example of Israeli soldiers intentionaly attacking innocent Palestinians. You can't so why won't you go to area 51 and try to find something the US goverment is really hiding.