The Kremlin is not The Kremlin

[RoboPig]

Few people in the US would even know it's Russian if you showed them St. Basil's Cathedral. I've known some kids in highschool who have never heard of the Soviet Union or Josef Stalin. Most are more concerned with their next football or basketball game.....But anyway I just think St. Basil's Cathedral is more recconizible than the REAL Kremlin. When I saw Algore's face on the internet I just laughed and got on with the game.

true, the other day i mentioned joe stalin and noone knew who that was. within seconds they started talking about college football

 

[cancerkitty]

Why not just call it Red Square then? At least that would be a more accurate abstraction, especially considering you can see the actual Kremlin in the background of the movie.

I think Kremlin is a poor choice of a wonder anyway. A lot of Russian cities had Kremlins, it wasn't a unique structure by any stretch of the imagination, whereas St. Basil's is.

 

[John Lenin]

One adult person I once knew was amazed when she found out our solar system had an Asteroid belt......

Hah, that's nothing. Many adult people I know are amazed when they find out (from me) that stars are suns that are very far away. I know people in their 30s who have believed all their lives that stars are particles in the atmosphere reflecting from the sun (or some other confabulatory nonsense). I have had arguments with others who insist that The Moon is a planet. And a contestant on a TV quiz show I once saw was asked the name of the star closest to Earth. He replied: "The Milky Way."

 

[Greek Plunder]

I have a solution.

Mod the name to St. Basil's Cathedral. That's what I'm doing.

 

[lawine]

Hah, that's nothing. Many adult people I know are amazed when they find out (from me) that stars are suns that are very far away. I know people in their 30s who have believed all their lives that stars are particles in the atmosphere reflecting from the sun (or some other confabulatory nonsense). I have had arguments with others who insist that The Moon is a planet. And a contestant on a TV quiz show I once saw was asked the name of the star closest to Earth. He replied: "The Milky Way."

humans are stupid.

i once met a guy (on irc), who had never heard of the roman empire.

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

That's true - the "Kremlin" in Civ4 is actually St Basil's Cathedral. However as Richosh pointed out, an average Western person would not know what St Basil's Cathedral is, but would not recognise a picture of the Kremlin. So I guess Firaxis went with a picture which people would recognise as being something Russian, and with a name that most people would have heard about.

Actually an average Western person know which is Kremlin and which is St. Basil. If you think that an average Western person is only an American, then you are wrong.

 

[Novaya Havoc]

There's a LOT of stuff inside the Kremlin. It would be impossible to render well for the Civ4 cities.

Instead, they selected St. Basil's -- the most prominent landmark in Russia -- to represent the "Kremlin." Sure, it's technically in Red Square, but... meh. It's far more identifiable.

Rise of Nations did the same thing -- a big "St. Basil's" for the Kremlin (which produced spy units, no less!).

Personally, I'm just glad they included the Hermitage.

 

[chris8b]

I have had arguments with others who insist that The Moon is a planet.

Uh, how do I do this delicately...

planet
1 a : any of the seven celestial bodies sun, moon, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, and Saturn that in ancient belief have motions of their own among the fixed stars b (1) : any of the large bodies that revolve around the sun in the solar system (2) : a similar body associated with another star

(Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

Or check out Wikipedia's excellent summary on the definition of planet.

 

[trotskylite]

the kremlin was just a stupid choice for a wonder

 

[lawine]

Uh, how do I do this delicately...

planet
1 a : any of the seven celestial bodies sun, moon, Venus, Jupiter, Mars, Mercury, and Saturn that in ancient belief have motions of their own among the fixed stars b (1) : any of the large bodies that revolve around the sun in the solar system (2) : a similar body associated with another star

(Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

Or check out Wikipedia's excellent summary on the definition of planet.

clearly 1A is an incorrect definition formed by people who couldn't even invent sanitation. i'm not sure we should consider it a valid definition.

 

[chris8b]

clearly 1A is an incorrect definition formed by people who couldn't even invent sanitation. i'm not sure we should consider it a valid definition.

Hehe...well, since you brought it up, sanitation has been in use for close to 5500 years...

 

[John Lenin]

clearly 1A is an incorrect definition formed by people who couldn't even invent sanitation. i'm not sure we should consider it a valid definition.

Uhhh, yeah, what that says ^^^^^....

And the fact that a planet is something that orbits a sun as its primary.

Dictionary and encyclopaedia definitions are all very well, but The Moon is not the same order of celestial body as Mercury, Venus, Earth, etc..

That is an excellent Wikipedia article, which I note contains the following phrase: While there is much disagreement between current definitions of "planet", the majority in the main focus on three general criteria: that it must orbit a star, be above a certain size, and yet not large enough to commence nuclear fusion.

The argument I refer to cropped up in the context of me saying that human beings have never been to another planet, which they haven't, 'pon which someone piped up with The Moon...

A planet orbiting a star is one thing; a rocky body orbiting a planet is another thing.

I'm gonna slink away now and not get drawn into a quasi-Talmudic debate on the definition of planet.... Hey. I'm too busy playing Civ4 fer jaysus' sake!

 

[josephstalin]

Well, I'm Russian and consider Kremlin a bunch of building inside Kremlin walls and those walls. I guess just the walls looked stupid, but walls with cathedral were too bulky.

 

[Rus guy]

the kremlin was just a stupid choice for a wonder

trotskylite, yeah? And the Statue Of Liberty is a Great wonder??? The Hollywood and Broadway are wonders????

I'm just a Russian guy and I want my real Kremlin in the game

Anyway, the game is great!!

 

[chris8b]

I'm gonna slink away now and not get drawn into a quasi-Talmudic debate on the definition of planet.... Hey. I'm too busy playing Civ4 fer jaysus' sake!

Hehe good idea... I was just playing with ya in an attempt to derail a thread in which far too many people are being pedantic.

 

[neriana]

I hope most westerners are perceptive enough to know the difference between a cathedral and a government building. If they aren't, why on earth encourage their ignorance by perpetuating it in a game that's supposed to be based on historical reality? Besides, I don't understand the motivation here. Yes, the minarets are pretty -- make another wonder with minarets if you like them so much. Why would anyone misrepresent something like that? It makes no sense to me.

The Al Gore internet is just stupid. He never said he invented the internet anyway, and now this game perpetuates that propaganda. Oh well, at least FDR's in, the right-wing really hates him.

 

[Xarlak]

The Al Gore internet is just stupid. He never said he invented the internet anyway, and now this game perpetuates that propaganda. Oh well, at least FDR's in, the right-wing really hates him.

No, he specifically said:

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

He took credit for helping to sponsor several key acts which helped build the internet into what it is today. Whether this is the same as creating the internet is up to your interpretation.

 

[lugersci]

WOW, im embarased, I am Russian and I kind of knew sometihng was wrong, but still. UGH

 

[Carver]

When US journalists broadcast from "the Kremlin" they are usually on Red Sqaure with St. Basil's behind them. That's what people recognize ...not that it really matters.

 

[erikg88]

I also thought that the Kremlin was St. Basil's Cathedral. I'm going to do as Greek Plunder suggests (assuming I can figure out what files to edit).

Now would somebody cue *The More You Know*?