The lamest resource

[Lord Parkin]

More variation in the types of resources would be nice, especially on larger maps.

I don't think that having resources that can be exhausted would be a gameplay improvement though - it'd be more of an annoyance. Don't forget that the whole reason they removed exhaustable resources in the transition from Civ3 to Civ4 was because they were unfun. (I remember a few games of Civ3 where my Iron or my Coal would disappear soon after I'd discovered it - that was incredibly frustrating, and not at all fun for me.)

There needs to be a balance between realism and gameplay. You could add in a tonne of "realistic" factors, but that doesn't necessarily mean it'd make the game more fun. (In fact, quite probably it would make it boring and/or highly irritating to play.)

 

[mtr12]

There are lots of ways you could improve the resource system. More (in number and in type) of resources. Resources that can be exhausted, or that only provide a benefit to X number of cities.

For example, Gold mines can be exhausted - but it's also possible for Silver and Uranium to be found after the Gold is gone, for example.

Renewable resources like corn or Wheat probably would never get exhausted. Fish might. Whales certainly could be. Etc.

It wouldn't be so fun. Free resources may be unrealistic, but it keeps our minds on the important things like diplo, tech, and killing things. When I get gold, it's more fun to think "I got gold" than "My gold will be gone by 800-1000 AD".

Of course, there are always modders who can take up the slack for people who enjoy that kind of stuff.

The worst resource is the whale, because it always seems to pop up in an unworkable/unreachable tile. And by then (Optics), it's redundant with a lot of your other resources.

 

[6K Man]

I guess I don't see resources being exhausted as being any different from trees being chopped and gone forever thereafter. It would make sense for most resources to last until at least the industrial era (where resource usage went up exponentially). It would add a degree of realism to say that "your oil well supplies enough oil to power X number of cities and Y number of military vessels", and if you want more power/units, you'll need more oil (or uranium/fission for warships).

But I get that most people aren't interested.

 

[UWHabs]

I guess I don't see resources being exhausted as being any different from trees being chopped and gone forever thereafter. It would make sense for most resources to last until at least the industrial era (where resource usage went up exponentially). It would add a degree of realism to say that "your oil well supplies enough oil to power X number of cities and Y number of military vessels", and if you want more power/units, you'll need more oil (or uranium/fission for warships).

But I get that most people aren't interested.

Maybe not exhausting, but yeah, if say each resource worked on like 10 cities, then as you get bigger, maybe you'll need 2 iron mines. Although then you'd get complaints about which cities lose access to it...

*or thinking about it, even adding a random event that's like: if you control less than numcities/10 of a certain resource, it'll pop up randomly saying, "Mine temporarily depleted - lose access to that resource for the next 10 turns to restock it" Then maybe give a secondary option that's something like, "Spend 250 gold and go prospecting - 5X chance for the next 10 turns of popping that resource randomly." Obviously that would only apply to resources that can be discovered, but it'd be an interesting event to go in that direction.

 

[Flying Pig]

It wouldn't be so fun. Free resources may be unrealistic, but it keeps our minds on the important things like diplo, tech, and killing things. When I get gold, it's more fun to think "I got gold" than "My gold will be gone by 800-1000 AD".

Resources last a very, very long time - the Welsh gold mines were in use when the Romans arrived and only just ran out. As such, it would be more trouble than it's worth because you would need to have, instead of a source of oil, a source of x turns of oil - which would increase with the amount you consumed - very complex

 

[nbcman]

I wouldn't want the chance for resources to exhaust. Gives me flashbacks to Civ3 where if your only source of saltpeter was exhausted = no more gunpowder units.

 

[Flying Pig]

Realistic, but not fun. It would encourage some form of resource conservation like modern nations are doing

 

[RichPowers]

Civ IV is a game, not a geopolitical and resource simulator. While resource depletion could make for some interesting and fun situations (should I invade this civ to secure their huge oil reserves?), I think it's more trouble than it's worth.

While I only have about 6 or 7 games under my belt, I've yet to see a viable whale resource. One of these games, I'll have to launch a nuke at one of them

 

[Xellos-_^]

I wouldn't mind seeing Resource delepation as a option on custom game menu. That is if the game would also balance it by increasing the chance of discovering new resources. You should also be allow to stockpile resource, so if you save some resources before even after the iron mine ran out you can have a access to iron until you acquire another iron mine or your stockpile runs out.

 

[Airefuego]

Resource depletion would be very realistic but I'm glad it's not in the game.

Because I enjoy Civ as an ESCAPE from the rather awful reality of what we are doing to our forests, jungles, fish stocks and rivers in real life...

it's nice to bury my head in the sand for a few hours!

 

[Lord Parkin]

I guess I don't see resources being exhausted as being any different from trees being chopped and gone forever thereafter.

The difference is, though, that the player has control over whether or not he wants to "deplete" his forests. Any resource exhaustion would have to be caused by a random event and not human controlled (or else the human would never choose to deplete the resource ). This is the key issue - it's not fun in a game when something bad happens that you have no control over.

(Also, of course forests give bonus hammers when chopped, and usually they give the ability to build better improvements after chopping. So there's often a lot of benefit to chopping forests. On the other hand, resource exhaustion is never useful to any player - it gives zero benefit in return for complete loss.)

 

[6K Man]

The difference is, though, that the player has control over whether or not he wants to "deplete" his forests. Any resource exhaustion would have to be caused by a random event and not human controlled (or else the human would never choose to deplete the resource ). This is the key issue - it's not fun in a game when something bad happens that you have no control over.

Nonsense, a system for resource depletion would be easy to implement without needing any random elements. For example:

Don't build tanks/warships (without Uranium)/Aircraft = never run out of oil. Each oil source provides enough oil for 40 units.

Build more than 10 Coal Plants? You'll need more than 1 Coal source.

1 Gold mine only supplies enough Gold to make 40 population points happy (e.g. 20 cities with Forges).

Etc.

 

[Matthew5117]

^Nice, I like that idea.

This way, you actually consider if you need to build that extra unit or plant.

 

[Lord Parkin]

That actually sounds interesting. The numbers would of course need to be tested, but the idea seems okay.

One big problem though - you need some way to balance it so that all the resources don't run out and then the game becomes completely static and boring. For example, with your suggestion, once all the Oil on the map is used up there will never be any Tanks/Modern Armour/Aircraft built ever again. Same is true for Uranium, Coal, Iron... every other strategic resource (except, arguably, self-producing ones like Horses). So the problem of "world depletion" would need to be solved, to prevent the game being intrinsically limited to a certain number of units being produced, followed by a reversion to old-age units due to no-one being able to build any resource-requiring units (which would be incredibly frustrating).

I don't know, I guess you'd need some kind of manufacturing building that can create new resources. But then it starts to get to the point where you're making the game require unnecessarily large amounts of micromanagement. You'd have to implement this kind of thing very carefully so as not to completely screw up the fun of the game.

 

[Ramesses]

That actually sounds interesting. The numbers would of course need to be tested, but the idea seems okay.

One big problem though - you need some way to balance it so that all the resources don't run out and then the game becomes completely static and boring. For example, with your suggestion, once all the Oil on the map is used up there will never be any Tanks/Modern Armour/Aircraft built ever again. Same is true for Uranium, Coal, Iron... every other strategic resource (except, arguably, self-producing ones like Horses). So the problem of "world depletion" would need to be solved, to prevent the game being intrinsically limited to a certain number of units being produced, followed by a reversion to old-age units due to no-one being able to build any resource-requiring units (which would be incredibly frustrating).

I don't know, I guess you'd need some kind of manufacturing building that can create new resources. But then it starts to get to the point where you're making the game require unnecessarily large amounts of micromanagement. You'd have to implement this kind of thing very carefully so as not to completely screw up the fun of the game.

There could be a Solar Power Mastery tech that allows you to build units that consume no resources. I can imagine there will be quite a bit of incentive to race for that tech.

 

[Rashiminos]

Oil when you don't have it. Nothing more unsettling to my late-game airwars than for my idiot ancestors not to have won the crucial land control battles either through luck or ruthless conquest.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Oil when you don't have it. Nothing more unsettling to my late-game airwars than for my idiot ancestors not to have won the crucial land control battles either through luck or ruthless conquest.

There's always uranium to correct that issue . You get a metal navy at least, not to mention the ability to ruin the world via taking land . Tac nukes are brilliant. They only range at 4 squares but because of how they damage all adjacent tiles they're effectively 5.

 

[Rashiminos]

There's always uranium to correct that issue . You get a metal navy at least, not to mention the ability to ruin the world via taking land . Tac nukes are brilliant. They only range at 4 squares but because of how they damage all adjacent tiles they're effectively 5.

Even so, I prefer having the air units. The range and ability to transfer en masse is great for a hurry up offense, while I'm not always in need of a hefty coastal presence. Bonus points if I'm using a vassal's cities as airbases on another continent instead of lugging a mass of artillery over.

 

[6K Man]

That actually sounds interesting. The numbers would of course need to be tested, but the idea seems okay.

One big problem though - you need some way to balance it so that all the resources don't run out and then the game becomes completely static and boring. For example, with your suggestion, once all the Oil on the map is used up there will never be any Tanks/Modern Armour/Aircraft built ever again. Same is true for Uranium, Coal, Iron... every other strategic resource (except, arguably, self-producing ones like Horses). So the problem of "world depletion" would need to be solved, to prevent the game being intrinsically limited to a certain number of units being produced, followed by a reversion to old-age units due to no-one being able to build any resource-requiring units (which would be incredibly frustrating).

I don't know, I guess you'd need some kind of manufacturing building that can create new resources. But then it starts to get to the point where you're making the game require unnecessarily large amounts of micromanagement. You'd have to implement this kind of thing very carefully so as not to completely screw up the fun of the game.

Well - I would think that if you lose vessels, you could replace them, until you are back up to the 40 vessel/well limit (or whatever limit is chosen). And... Standard Ethanol, anyone?

Mech Inf don't require Oil, IIRC.

And I kinda think that world depletion makes sense. I guess it just seems like it could be balanced - and you'd use those few MA/Stealth Bombers very carefully, as spearheads for a more Infantry based main force. After all, very few armies are entirely mechanized, even today. When I last checked, they still did marching drills in basic training.

Another option would be to allow you to build as many Tanks/Bombers as you wanted, but without (enough) oil, they (or the excess number beyond the limit per well) would have a move rate of 0.

 

[Crowqueen]

That actually sounds interesting. The numbers would of course need to be tested, but the idea seems okay.

One big problem though - you need some way to balance it so that all the resources don't run out and then the game becomes completely static and boring. For example, with your suggestion, once all the Oil on the map is used up there will never be any Tanks/Modern Armour/Aircraft built ever again. Same is true for Uranium, Coal, Iron... every other strategic resource (except, arguably, self-producing ones like Horses). So the problem of "world depletion" would need to be solved, to prevent the game being intrinsically limited to a certain number of units being produced, followed by a reversion to old-age units due to no-one being able to build any resource-requiring units (which would be incredibly frustrating).

I don't know, I guess you'd need some kind of manufacturing building that can create new resources. But then it starts to get to the point where you're making the game require unnecessarily large amounts of micromanagement. You'd have to implement this kind of thing very carefully so as not to completely screw up the fun of the game.

In that case there would be the possibility of another oil resource opening up elsewhere in your empire or even in another civ, prompting an invasion. A bit like the Greed quest, mayhap.

In Civ III resources deplete and then respawn elsewhere. I agree, I get frustrated when it happens, but (a) it doesn't happen that often (b) it made me keep an eye on the inter-turn sequence and (c) it does give an extra added element to gameplay.