The least deserving civilization?

[SilentHunter]

The Native Americans had all sorts of techs going for them. Clothing, Pottery, Weaponry, Religion, Their own Language, Horseback Riding, Shrooms, Peace Pipe, etc.. to name a few. If you are going to take out the Native Americans then you are going to have to eliminate the corn resource from the game as well. The Natives need more leaders, rather than just the Sioux tribe being represented.

I'm curious now. I don't know Native history well, I didn't vote yet because it seems pointless (the more the merier) but for me they still had a very poor culture and technology (culture doesn't mean for me way of live, it means history, litterature, music..etc..). I was surprised in-game to see city names. Does anybody know were they come from?

I'm surprised too that people want the viking out: they settled in normandy and conquered england, they founded a powerfull kingdom in Sicilia, were among the creators of strong medieval Kiev and Moscovite kingdoms and were the first non-native to settle in America. Their commercial empire thus extended from America to Persian empire.

 

[EweezE]

I'm curious now. I don't know Native history well, I didn't vote yet because it seems pointless (the more the merier) but for me they still had a very poor culture and technology (culture doesn't mean for me way of live, it means history, litterature, music..etc..). I was surprised in-game to see city names. Does anybody know were they come from?

Check out wikipedia at this LINK for info about the Natives. I always found them interesting during American History. As for the names of their cities... I think that some of them are real Native village names, but the others are fictional. For instance Snaketown just sounds fictional to me lol.

 

[AfterShafter]

I'm all for more Native civs myself. A pro/org Pontiac would make my freaking day

 

[Pir Lan Tota]

Voted all should be in, though I am not to keen on this list, being incomplete.

Now for what the Dutch did:

Dutch:
- Discovered Australia
- Discovered Most of the Rivers leading the Hudson Lake. Hudson being English but funded by the Dutch to undertake that opperation.
- Founded the first company in the world to use Stocks
- First Country in Europe to have Religious Tollerance to minorities.
- First Country in Europe to start trading with Japan on THEIR soil. (Major Diplomatic achievement
- Many Great Artists
* Frans Hals (ca. 1583-1666) portraits, schutterstukken, regent groups, genre pieces (inns, figures)
* Hendrick Avercamp (1585-1634) landscapes with snow
* Hendrick Terbruggen (1588-1629) historical and biblical paintings
* Willem Claeszoon Heda (1594-1680) still lifes
* Jan van Goyen (1596-1656) landscapes
* Pieter Jansz Saenredam (1597-1665) church interiors, cityscapes
* Salomon van Ruysdael (ca. 1600-1670) landscapes
* Adriaen Brouwer (ca. 1605-1638) genre pieces (inns)
* Rembrandt Harmenszoon van Rijn (1606-1669) historical and biblical paintings, portraits, schutterstukken, regent groups, genre pieces (figures)
* Jan Lievens (1607-1674) historical and biblical paintings, portraits
* Adriaen van Ostade (1610-1684) genre scenes of peasant life
* Willem van de Velde, the elder (ca. 1611-1693) seascapes
* Bartholomeus van der Helst (1613-1670) portraits, schutterstukken, regent groups
* Jan Both (1615-1652) Italian landscapes
* Govert Flinck (1615-1660) historical and biblical paintings, portraits, schutterstukken
* Ferdinand Bol (1616-1680) historical and biblical paintings
* Emanuel de Witte (ca. 1617-1692) church interiors
* Gerard Terborch (1617-1681) portraits, genre pieces (family scenes)
* Philips Wouwermans (1619-1668) landscapes
* Albert Cuyp (1620-1691) Italian and Dutch landscapes
* Carel Fabritius (1622-1654) historical and biblical paintings, genre pieces (figures)
* Paulus Potter (1625-1654) landscapes
* Jan Steen (1626-1679) genre pieces (inns, family scenes)
* Jacob Isaakszoon van Ruysdael (ca. 1628-1682)
* Gabriel Metsu (1629-1667) genre pieces (family scenes)
* Pieter de Hooch (1629-1683) genre pieces (family scenes)
* Johannes Vermeer (1632-1675) cityscapes, genre pieces (family scenes)
* Nicolaes Maes (1634-1693) portraits, genre pieces (family scenes, figures)
* Meindert Hobbema (1638-1709) landscapes
These are just from the Golden Age, for more Painters and lesser known painters, go to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dutch_painters#17th_Century


- Many Great Scientists like:
* Simon Stevin (1548-1620) hydraulic engineer and mathematician
* Jan Leeghwater (1575-1650) hydraulic engineer
* Hugo Grotius (1583-1645) laid the foundations for international law
* René Descartes French philosopher lived in Holland from 1628 till 1649.
* Christiaan Huygens (1629-1695) was a famous mathematician, physicist and astronomer
* Baruch de Spinoza (1632-1677) philosopher
* Anton van Leeuwenhoek who invented or greatly improved the microscope (opinions differ) and was the first to methodically study microscopic life, thus laying the foundations for the field of cell biology.
* Nicolaes Tulp (1593-1674) Doctor, Magistrate, and Mayor of Amsterdam, wrote a book on diseases and human & animal anatomy
* Cornelis Corneliszoon (1550-ca. 1600) Inventor of the sawmill
* Govert Bidloo (1649-1713) physician, anatomist and author who wrote the anatomical atlas Anatomia Humani Corporis
* Frederik de Wit (1630-1706) engraver, cartographer and publisher

- The Dutch where the first to develop and employ the Naval Tactic called Line Battle. The English where the first to make this tactic standard for all future naval engagements.

- The Dutch are one the of the founding Nations of the EU
- The Dutch are one the of the founding Nations of NATO
- The Dutch are hosting the International Court of Justice

Those are just a few things on the Dutch that I could find in a 10 minutes, while being bothered by my boss at work.

 

[Seleh ad'Din]

Mongolia was just a bunch of herdsmen who united and killed 30 million people. They themselves contributed nothing in terms of art, culture, or technology (and don't go all "ooh but Kublai Khan..." on me because all his works were built by enslaved artists and thinkers from other cultures), and their empire lasted less than two centuries. Sounds more like barbarians than a civilization. Zulus are pretty much the same way: a massive warband whose only claim to fame was how many innocent people they killed or enslaved. Their empire lasted what, two generations?

 

[The Fishman]

Mongolia was just a bunch of herdsmen who united and killed 30 million people. They themselves contributed nothing in terms of art, culture, or technology (and don't go all "ooh but Kublai Khan..." on me because all his works were built by enslaved artists and thinkers from other cultures), and their empire lasted less than two centuries. Sounds more like barbarians than a civilization.

Mongolian history is pretty interesting. Before the Mongols there were a number of large empires which rose and fell, including the Rouran, the Gokturks (they were about the size of Russia) and the Uighurs. Although Turko-Mongol civilisation was based on nomadic pastoralism rather than agriculture they have a distinct culture which once dominated a vast portion of the world, and they most definitely deserve to be in Civ.

And they did build cities rather than just live in yurts. There are several ruined Uighur cities that have been discovered, and Karakorum, Genghis Khan's captial, is the most famous of them all.

 

[Pir Lan Tota]

Not just that, the monguls showed that even an underdog can rule the world. For all the riches of those other empires, simple horsemen came and conquered

 

[Stoney the I]

i would vote america if they were in it.

since they havent been around long (as been stated before) and are a mix of other civs.

since thats not an option to vote, i voted they should all be in.

 

[ICNP]

I think Spain, Japan, and Persia should be taken off the list to be replaced by Mongolia, and America and someone else...

 

[say1988]

Holy Rome. Germany Should represent the various German states throughout its history (HRE, Prussia, Austria, Bavaria, Germany, etc...).

Native Americans should just be renamed [Sioux in this case].

I don't know enough to judge Babylon/Sumer.

Zulus I think deserve to be in as a south African power.

 

[CHEESE!]

Well I voted Every civ, but if i had to vote for one i would choose Babylon, sure hanging gardens and all that, but really if we have Sumeria?

 

[GIO888]

This thing about the Mongols not being a Civ, not true IMHO.

They destroyed European armies routinely, and it's said one in four Mainland Europeans have Mongol blood today as a result of Mongol conquests. They went home undefeated and probably bored!
One of the reasons the Germans/Poles/Balts have historically been so Xenophobic!!

There are different reasons to be called a "Civ" Cultural, Military, Philosophically, so they all deserve a shot.

Plus we could get 60 Civ's on a huge map, MOD anyone?

 

[niels251]

Then again, Portugese explorers were the first to get to india, and colonized brazil.

The Netherlands didn't do THAT much, but were an awesome people who had a bit of an overseas empire for a while. New York used to be called New Amsterdam.

I'm not too familiar with the Mali, but there needed to be some more Africa representation.

You could get rid of either Sumeria or Babylon and I don't think anyone would notice though.

Uuhh the Dutch where the most powerfull civ during the 17th Century. A bit of overseas empire... Suriname, South-Africa- Indonesia to name some. At the end it was England that came out more powerfull.

Mali was on of the great empires in Africa during the middle ages. They where more powerfull than the europe civs in that time.

Sumeria and Babylon where in their time one of the greatest civs.

 

[onedreamer]

Has to be Native America and Zululand for me. Third would be America -which isn't even a correct name-

 

[henyo10]

the Celtics seem to be a bunch of barbarians, their UU says it all. Mongols deserve to be in civ. They ruled one dynasty of China and invented tons of stuff during that period

 

[Balderstrom]

Yes, I'm not all that inclined to Buy CIV 5 until an expansion pack if all it will include is 16-18 CIVs. I've mentioned that before. Everyone always replies with "thats how Firaxis does it". Well I vote with my wallet then. If thats the way it is, by the time an expansion pack comes out I'll be able to get CIV 5 + Expansion for less than CIV 5 was at launch.

I'm far too used to 12-18CIV Games, and if the game launches with 16-18 CIVs that means nearly every game will be the same number of CIVs - pretty boring, no matter how grand the game play is.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I picked Holy Roman Empire. I feel their culture is represented by the later European nations, and they are too Germanic. Besides, they were neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire. That was a pathetic choice.

The Mongolian civilization encompasses far more than just modern Monogolia the country and the province in China part. It's the representative of the semi-pastoralist cultures, those that live off the land with a combination of herding and farming. These people are usually small and rely on great leaders, like the Xi Xia or the Manchurians. Also, and this is a theory not popular in the West, but: Tibetian culture is not really Buddhist, or Indian. Indian Buddhism and their caste system was only an influance by name. Rather, their slavery/serfdom and organized religion is very similar to the Mongolian pattern, where a large number of slaves/serfs were ruled by scattered clan leaders or landlords. In lands that were not wealthy but vast in area, serfdom was the preferred pattern, because the isolation means there is no escape, plus you need to extract as much labour as possible out of the people. It's a little similar to the Russians spreading to the East. They were also heavily influanced and sometimes even directly ruled by the Mongols.

 

[azzaman333]

America, closely followed by Poland, not-quite-as-closely-but-still-close-enough-to-be-closely followed by Israel.

 

[oranges]

None, all the indisputable majors are in, all the others one could argue one way or the other. As long as they're fun to play, it's all good.

 

[NintendoTogepi]

I'm shocked that six people picked the Byzantines!

They are extremely important and deserving, I'm surprised it took till BtS to add them in.