The Left and Islam

[JohnRM]

I am a staunch anti-Islamofascist, conservative Republican, and American Nationalist who supports attacks on Iran -- yada yada yada, but even I think that this article goes a little off of the deep end. There is no distinguished and clear alliance between the Left and radical Islam. The left are full of wishy-washy, pie-in-the-sky dreamers, dancing in the happy forrest singing kumbaya, but they have not, for the most part, stooped so low in their fight against conservatism and other right-wing forces to ally with the Islamo-fascists.

 

[Gelion]

I find it facinating how new political terms, ordered from the very top, like "Islamofashist" enter the everyday use. Propaganda machine in action. I would not mind that if the word "propaganda" was used for all sides of the conflict. The funniest part however is that the "true" side always claims that the other one is "brainwashed"...

 

[Sidhe]

I find it facinating how new political terms, ordered from the very top, like "Islamofashist" enter the everyday use. Propaganda machine in action. I would not mind that if the word "propaganda" was used for all sides of the conflict. The funniest part however is that the "true" side always claims that the other one is "brainwashed"...

The funny thing is that the country bandying such terms about is actually moving towards the faccist doctrine itself, it's disparaging Islamists from being violent and dictatorial by behaving in a violent and dictatorial manner, it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Are you suggesting US citizens are brainwashed by their media/government/organisational propaganda? Or that both sides are Next you'll be saying Al Jazeera and Fox are biased

 

[Gelion]

The funny thing is that the country bandying such terms about is actually moving towards the faccist doctrine itself, it's disparaging Islamists from being violent and dictatorial by behaving in a violent and dictatorial manner, it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Are you suggesting US citizens are brainwashed by their media/government/organisational propaganda? Or that both sides are

Propaganda is a fact of life. Understanding it and not judging the world in "black and white" is all that needs to be done. Its not that hard, trust me

 

[Sidhe]

Propaganda is a fact of life. Understanding it and not judging the world in "black and white" is all that needs to be done. Its not that hard, trust me

I agree for a European maybe

 

[skadistic]

I don't know who you are talking about.

Naziassbandit or what ever he calls himsekf now. He has openly supported terror groups and their tacticts of targeting civilians.

 

[Princeps]

Naziassbandit or what ever he calls himsekf now. He has openly supported terror groups and their tacticts of targeting civilians.

Nope. I find it acceptable as I know what causes it - even worse terrorism and oppression and full scale war... which is terrorism but multiplied by thousand times. However, I do not encourage or advocate it. On the contrary, I'd like to see a peaceful solution, but many don't. Those hypocrits and war-mongerers who say "we do not negoiate with terrorists..."

 

[Gelion]

I agree for a European maybe

Oh? Possibly.... so you judge the world in black and white?

 

[blackheart]

How much of this propeganda can you eat before you have to vomit?

 

[skadistic]

Nope. I find it acceptable as I know what causes it - even worse terrorism and oppression and full scale war... which is terrorism but multiplied by thousand times. However, I do not encourage or advocate it. On the contrary, I'd like to see a peaceful solution, but many don't. Those hypocrits and war-mongerers who say "we do not negoiate with terrorists..."

So its ok to target civilians just don't do it.
Since you know what causes the according to you perfectly accepable targeting of civilians in a place like Beslan or the Madrid train bombing? How about the blowing up of shopers at a market.

I find it disturbing you think targeting little girls in a pizza shop is fine.

 

[greekguy]

The funny thing is that the country bandying such terms about is actually moving towards the faccist doctrine itself, it's disparaging Islamists from being violent and dictatorial by behaving in a violent and dictatorial manner, it'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. Are you suggesting US citizens are brainwashed by their media/government/organisational propaganda? Or that both sides are Next you'll be saying Al Jazeera and Fox are biased

every 24 hour news network is biased in one form or another, that doesn't prove anything.

in regards to the article, their are some leftists who do ally with elements i myself personally hate (Cindy sheehan), while there are also people on the right who ignore human rights abuse and terror funding when it comes to pumping in the oil (Bush admin. and its love affairs with the Saudis and Pakistan).

 

[Gelion]

So its ok to target civilians just don't do it.
Since you know what causes the according to you perfectly accepable targeting of civilians in a place like Beslan or the Madrid train bombing? How about the blowing up of shopers at a market.

I find it disturbing you think targeting little girls in a pizza shop is fine.

Allright, lets turn this around.

Do you find bombing of Iran or Iraq acceptable?

 

[skadistic]

Allright, lets turn this around.

Do you find bombing of Iran or Iraq acceptable?

I find the trgeting of militants acceptable that is war. Its not the same as targeting civilians.

So I don't know what your trying to "turn around".

 

[Gelion]

I find the trgeting of militants acceptable that is war. Its not the same as targeting civilians.

So I don't know what your trying to "turn around".

Well civilians die in wars (remember Dresden?). Thus I am confident that it is as acceptable to "them" (current conflict) to kill civilians as it is to "you" to kill militants (even though "their" civilians most certainly die during these bombings). Thus I am sure that Princeps meant that both forms of killing are acceptable in "war", as those who are not responsible/not involved "in war" die anyways. Falluja, Baghdad and ruins of other cities small remain memorials to this fact.

 

[Gladi]

I find the trgeting of militants acceptable that is war. Its not the same as targeting civilians.

So I don't know what your trying to "turn around".

I knew Americans who tought that all of Afghanistan should have been nuked. I spoke to them in person and thus I know they exist. Are they representative of USA?

 

[Princeps]

So its ok to target civilians just don't do it.
Since you know what causes the according to you perfectly accepable targeting of civilians in a place like Beslan or the Madrid train bombing? How about the blowing up of shopers at a market.

I find it disturbing you think targeting little girls in a pizza shop is fine.

As I said, war is terrorism multiplied by a thousand times. US and Israel have participated in far greater acts of terrorism than all the terrorist factions combined. They even created the worst of them.

I don't care if hundred Israelis dies in a bombing - I know why it happens and it happens because Israelis kill ten times more people and force the rest to live in poverty. The Europeans did that, not so long ago in a global scale. That is why there is terrorism, and I accept that. Now, lets work to prevent that by not participating it worse terrorism ourselves.

 

[skadistic]

Well civilians die in wars (remember Dresden?). Thus I am confident that it is as acceptable to "them" (current conflict) to kill civilians as it is to "you" to kill militants (even though "their" civilians most certainly die during these bombings). Thus I am sure that Princeps meant that both forms of killing are acceptable in "war", as those who are not responsible/not involved "in war" die anyways. Falluja, Baghdad and ruins of other cities small remain memorials to this fact.

No he means its ok to bomb babies on busses.

Civilians die in war yes. But Dresden was when? Do we still carpet bomb whole cities? Why not? To lessen civilian deathes maybe. Targeting civilians is not acceptable ever. But thats not what happens now is it? Fallija and Baghdad? How many civilians were targeted by US forces? How many bombs have gone off in markets to kill civilians?

 

[skadistic]

As I said, war is terrorism multiplied by a thousand times. US and Israel have participated in far greater acts of terrorism than all the terrorist factions combined. They even created the worst of them.

I don't care if hundred Israelis dies in a bombing - I know why it happens and it happens because Israelis kill ten times more people and force the rest to live in poverty. The Europeans did that, not so long ago in a global scale. That is why there is terrorism, and I accept that. Now, lets work to prevent that by not participating it worse terrorism ourselves.

That speaks volumes. Its those criminal Israeli jews fault.

 

[ArneHD]

The diffrence between the left and the right is that the left isn't frightend enough to be botherd to do anything about it. I mean, 5000 out of 300 million. What are the odds that YOU are the one that is killed? Now on the other hand, the government is omnipresent and CAN do something to opress you, and, in the case of america, even kill you, althogh not without just cause. As of now anyway.

In summary: The Right is more scared by Extremists than their government and occationally become extremeists in the process of being so. The left are more scared of their own government than extremists and therefore work activly agiainst their own government. The right has labeld this cowardice.

In conclusion: I'm rambeling.

 

[Gelion]

Civilians die in war yes. But Dresden was when? Do we still carpet bomb whole cities?

No you dont, but its nice to know ones history.

Why not?

I dont know, political reasons? It could be pretty hard to explain such an action to civilized world. But again nowadays carpet bombing is not the only way to destroy a city with its inhabitants.

To lessen civilian deathes maybe.

Perhaps to you this is very honorable. To me these are minimal standarts of a civilized nation.

Targeting civilians is not acceptable ever. But thats not what happens now is it?

I hear about atrocities against civilians too often to agree to that statement.

Fallija and Baghdad? How many civilians were targeted by US forces?

Enough to make some people realise that little differences exist between both sides. I've seen enough and only on the net. Remember this wonderful movie about British (or was it US?) soldeirs taking a few Iraqis to their base and beating them up? "dont hurt me!" BAM! BAM! BAM! In the head, in the groin..... These people are just a few thoughts away from mass atrocities against civilians. But we do have individual cases already. Cutting someone's head of is very very unpleasant, but being shot by a modern age SS squad is also displeasing.