The Light and Dark Sides of OT - Splitting of the OT, A Proposal
- Thread starter Knight-Dragon
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Finvola
Where's my pie?
I think it's a great idea 
RedWolf
Deity
Originally posted by AVN
You are against it, then I'm going to support it
So, great idea XIII
Your vote shouldn't count then if thats how you choose.
RedWolf
Deity
I think this a bad idea. Like Stapel I fail to see how it makes anything "more efficient". It all seems like people wanting to make change just for changes sake.
Off Topic isgenerally the only forum i read on CFC these days and I like having it all together. It feels like the place where you go with your friends to just hang out and talk about anything - political debate/fights or light stuff about what kind of cars you own.
Thats the best part about Off Topic - it's "anything goes". It's the place to kick back and discuss whatever you want. It sometimes even seems to feel like "home" and I fear that his effect will dissipate if you start yanking them apart.
It will become less like a "gathering place" and more like two regular forums.
Those are my personal thoughts on the matter but there are other more practical problems as well. We've all seen the tone of single threads go BOTH ways... Somebody can start a serious debate thread but people still feel free to make jokes, light comments etc. Often this relief is needed when things get a LITTLE too serious. Many a flame war has been avoided due to a light hearted comment. And this is real life - this is what freinds DO when they're having a discussion.
And sometimes in lighter threads people can get serious. This is all part of the package of off topic - people feeling free to just act naturally and have a good time regardless of what they're discussing. You can't seperate the "light" from the "dark" in my opinion. They're MEANT to be together.
Will seperation of the two discourage or prohibit this "melding" of tones to the point that BOTH forums become garbage?
Will the "serious" forum turn into a bunch of boring old fogies discussing politics without ever cracking a smile or having ANY fun. And will the "light" forum turn into a pointless dumping ground of the ridiculous "babe threads" and "shoe size polls".
And see, the point is that those "ridiculous" threads are NEEDED as they provide the fun and light heartedness that we all enjoy and allow us all to get to really know each other as people...
The MIX is what makes Off Topic a community.
Off Topic isgenerally the only forum i read on CFC these days and I like having it all together. It feels like the place where you go with your friends to just hang out and talk about anything - political debate/fights or light stuff about what kind of cars you own.
Thats the best part about Off Topic - it's "anything goes". It's the place to kick back and discuss whatever you want. It sometimes even seems to feel like "home" and I fear that his effect will dissipate if you start yanking them apart.
It will become less like a "gathering place" and more like two regular forums.
Those are my personal thoughts on the matter but there are other more practical problems as well. We've all seen the tone of single threads go BOTH ways... Somebody can start a serious debate thread but people still feel free to make jokes, light comments etc. Often this relief is needed when things get a LITTLE too serious. Many a flame war has been avoided due to a light hearted comment. And this is real life - this is what freinds DO when they're having a discussion.
And sometimes in lighter threads people can get serious. This is all part of the package of off topic - people feeling free to just act naturally and have a good time regardless of what they're discussing. You can't seperate the "light" from the "dark" in my opinion. They're MEANT to be together.
Will seperation of the two discourage or prohibit this "melding" of tones to the point that BOTH forums become garbage?
Will the "serious" forum turn into a bunch of boring old fogies discussing politics without ever cracking a smile or having ANY fun. And will the "light" forum turn into a pointless dumping ground of the ridiculous "babe threads" and "shoe size polls".
And see, the point is that those "ridiculous" threads are NEEDED as they provide the fun and light heartedness that we all enjoy and allow us all to get to really know each other as people...
The MIX is what makes Off Topic a community.
Silverflame
OBJECTION!
I'm all for it. It feels like the "dark side" is already too dominant in OT, namely the religion topics. And I hate debating on the internet, and I seriously don't care all that much about politics and religion, mostly because you guys drove me away. It's okay that you guys debate, and sometimes they are nice reads, but I will have no part of it.
Before, most people were against the split because they knew that the mods were against it. Seeing how this suggestion is coming from KD, and he's actually willing to moderate both forums, I say go for it.
Before, most people were against the split because they knew that the mods were against it. Seeing how this suggestion is coming from KD, and he's actually willing to moderate both forums, I say go for it.
I'm against it as I think the sum of the dark side and the light side is greater than the parts. If you split them, then there are posters that will pretty much choose one forum or the other and the benefit we get from dark siders contributing to lighter threads and light siders leasing their soul long enough to post in a darker thread will be lost.
From an individual level, the quality of my posts will diminish (I know some will argue that there is no quality there to begin with) because I'll often make reference to an ongoing thread in a post. This is often referencing a "light thread" in my post in a "dark thread" or vice versa. This will be lost as I would not cross reference a thread from a different forum. The cross reference technique is one used to temporarily lighten a dark thread or to tempt the light siders to enter the dark side.
Just my two bits.
From an individual level, the quality of my posts will diminish (I know some will argue that there is no quality there to begin with) because I'll often make reference to an ongoing thread in a post. This is often referencing a "light thread" in my post in a "dark thread" or vice versa. This will be lost as I would not cross reference a thread from a different forum. The cross reference technique is one used to temporarily lighten a dark thread or to tempt the light siders to enter the dark side.
Just my two bits.
RedWolf
Deity
You're absolutely right. The "dark" is the "business" that draws me to Off Topic. However the "light" is the community that holds it all together and makes this feel like a familiar gathering of friends.
XIII~
I first ventured into the 'Off-Topic' room about a week ago. I added some input to two threads, if I recall correctly, then logged on later that night to see if there had been any replies. What I found was that both threads had been bumped to the second page in a matter of hours. What occurred to me then, and I'm glad you see it as well, is that this forum needs to be split a little. I was thinking about this:
Non-Civ (or other game) threads fall under the Colosseum. In the Colosseum there are 4 devoted rooms to specific topics: History, Sports, Computers and Humor. Obviously people will want to talk about more then just one of those 4 things on occasion, so a fifth room was created: Off-Topic.
Eventually another topic will grow so big in the Off-Topic room that it should have it's own devoted room. My suggestion is to make a 'News & Politics' room based out of the Colosseum. This will remove about 50-60% of the threads out of Off-Topic room and into a more appropriate room.
I think it would make more sense then adding say a humorous section of off-topic when a humor room is already available....
Off-topic should consist of threads that have no common topic. Here are a few threads that are currently in the OT forum, rightfully so:
birthdays, rest in peace, decimal system, shoe size, urban legends, south park, height, darwinism, etc.
While there are many news/politic threads on the same page (about half of the listed threads) including:
india, switzerlands neutrality, weapons of mass destruction, iraq war, small countries, freedom vs security, Bush, communism, etc.
Add a 'Colosseum > News & Politics' room and leave Off-Topic alone!
Just my humble opinion...
I first ventured into the 'Off-Topic' room about a week ago. I added some input to two threads, if I recall correctly, then logged on later that night to see if there had been any replies. What I found was that both threads had been bumped to the second page in a matter of hours. What occurred to me then, and I'm glad you see it as well, is that this forum needs to be split a little. I was thinking about this:
Non-Civ (or other game) threads fall under the Colosseum. In the Colosseum there are 4 devoted rooms to specific topics: History, Sports, Computers and Humor. Obviously people will want to talk about more then just one of those 4 things on occasion, so a fifth room was created: Off-Topic.
Eventually another topic will grow so big in the Off-Topic room that it should have it's own devoted room. My suggestion is to make a 'News & Politics' room based out of the Colosseum. This will remove about 50-60% of the threads out of Off-Topic room and into a more appropriate room.
I think it would make more sense then adding say a humorous section of off-topic when a humor room is already available....
Off-topic should consist of threads that have no common topic. Here are a few threads that are currently in the OT forum, rightfully so:
birthdays, rest in peace, decimal system, shoe size, urban legends, south park, height, darwinism, etc.
While there are many news/politic threads on the same page (about half of the listed threads) including:
india, switzerlands neutrality, weapons of mass destruction, iraq war, small countries, freedom vs security, Bush, communism, etc.
Add a 'Colosseum > News & Politics' room and leave Off-Topic alone!
Just my humble opinion...
Perfection
The Great Head.
No, it would be way to problematic in determining which goes where and also would lower posting in both as people take longer to shift between them.
Newbies would find it obtuse and annoying and would probobly make to many corny star wars jokes
Newbies would find it obtuse and annoying and would probobly make to many corny star wars jokes
AVN
Deity
I believe everyone has the right to use his own motivation for a vote isn't it ?
It maybe a stupid motivation (and I guess you are right when you think my motivation in this case isn't that intelligent in this case) but someone still has the right to vote the way he does.
Or don't you believe in democracy where everyone has the right to vote the way he likes (and use the motivation he wants) ?
Håkan Eriksson
Commander of the Swedes.
I think this is just plain stupid. What's the point? This is a forum about civilization. The only reason to have ONE of topic forum is that you hade some place to discus things that weren't civ related. I think it's a good thing, but I don't want it to go any futher. Then you have to start thinking what's the main reason for this entier site. Is it still the game civilizaiton? Or is politics, religion , food or any other off-topic topic.
When the Humor and Jokes forum was created I thought it was a good idea as a way of makeing off-topic more serious. The same whit sport and computer forums. But when World History forum came I was not happy about it. I still think that History discussions belong in Off-topic. I don't like the idea of splitting up forums.
When the Humor and Jokes forum was created I thought it was a good idea as a way of makeing off-topic more serious. The same whit sport and computer forums. But when World History forum came I was not happy about it. I still think that History discussions belong in Off-topic. I don't like the idea of splitting up forums.
RedWolf
Deity
I'll be honest - I don't believe that at all. We're voting on a major change to our beloved CFC. The idea of this thread is to get an idea of how people feel about the idea. The results of this poll will probably influence the final decision.
You cast a vote based on something totally unrelated to the REAL question so therefore I believe that your vote shouldn't count - because you obviously don't care either way - and THATS what this is about - a poll of people that really DO care.
It's just like in real life - I believe that people who vote for Arnold (for governor) because "Terminator 2 kicked ass" should have their voting privileges revoked because democracy is hampered and not helped by people like that. The problem however is there is no practical method to deal with this - the result being that people get to vote however they like regardless of aware of the issues they are. Someone who goes in and does "eeeny miny moe" gets t vote just like the person that really cares. There is no way of sorting them out fairly.
That being said you openly admitted that you voted the way you did for no good reason other than you didn't like another poster.
Therefore when evaluating "how people feel" about the issue they should ignore your vote because (by your own admission) your vote does not actually reflect this at all.
RedWolf
Deity
Oops I made a stupid mistake. Post Deleted.
h4ppy
You sir, pineapple?
I support this. One forum would be the "debate" topics and the other would be the "discussion" topics.
phoenix_night
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
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Originally posted by RedWolf
Yet strangely enough you voted FOR the split.
How do you know?
[Just curious]
RedWolf
Deity
I don't. I made a dumb mistake.
I saw the post above from "Hakon" and thought it was "Håkan Eriksson"
AVN
Deity
First my vote has nothing to do with not liking a certain person, I only disagree strongly with a certain opinion of him (as I explained in a PM to him, because it was off-topic here).
Second there are other (propably for you more acceptable)reasons why I support this proposal. For example the fact that topics are going so fast in the current OT (they are of the first page within a day at the moment) that I think that a split in OT is reasonable and desirable. A split in lighter and darker topics makes therefore sense although I can think of other splits (as proposed by XIII in the past too).
Because discussions about this subject tend to become emotional quite fast, I decided to use a different, more lighter motivation for my vote.
Maybe that was wrong and I shouldn't have posted my (or any)motivation at all, but that's something I think now.
Nevertheless I still think my vote should count.
G-Man
A One Man's War
If anything, maybe we should attach the light hearted stuff with the H&J forum. It's all stuff of a similar nature, as humor is also light hearted stuff. Also, the H&J forum has just a few posts a day today and together with the light hearted debates - which are usualy fewer than the "serious topics" in OT - will make of a more interesting forum. Maybe even add them to the sports forum, which has nearly a month of posts in a page.
I must say I don't like all the spoliting of forums stuff. I prefer to have as many stuff in as fewer forums as possible, as long as there aren't too many threads per forum - obviously not the case with forums like the sports forum or the H&J forum. I don't think it's the case with the OT either.
I must say I don't like all the spoliting of forums stuff. I prefer to have as many stuff in as fewer forums as possible, as long as there aren't too many threads per forum - obviously not the case with forums like the sports forum or the H&J forum. I don't think it's the case with the OT either.
RedWolf
Deity
That is of course acceptable. In your original post you made it sound as if you were voting only in order to spite another poster.
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