The magic square: 2 questions for BillChin

[Grotius]

I just tried BillChin's "magic square" strategy, and while it has worked okay, I have some questions about it. He advocates a dense early build, with cities 2-3 tiles apart, to facilitate early production and defense, and to minimize corruption. He can quickly generate 15+ horsemen this way, and then he goes on the offensive. He plays on Emperor or above, I think.

Well, I tried it on Regent, small map, Japanese. I may yet win; it's an exciting and close game. And yes, the dense build did help my early development. But now I've got cities competing for resources, starvation in some cases, and lots of micromanagement of city squares. And I've got less land area than I might have otherwise. So 2 questions arise:

1. How to deal with overlapping cities in the late game? Now I know BillChin suggests "trimming" extra cities in the dense build to remedy this. I think he has in mind building lots of workers to reduce their population. BillChin, do you go so far as to eliminate these cities altogether? I can't bring myself to do that: they've got nifty improvements, and they do supply production on those tiles that are unique to their city.

2. How do you deal with having less landmass to start with? Conquest, conquest, conquest? As I said, my dense early build meant that AI civ's gobbled up more territory early on than I did. Yes, I went on the offensive and eliminated my neighboring Chinese early, but meanwhile the Babs and Persians were gobbling up huge tracts of real estate by using standard spacing of cities. Now it's me vs Babs vs Persians, and while I've managed to surpass the Persian landmass, the Babs are way ahead in landmass (and thus on points).

Incidentally, this game has been a blast. To win, I'll need a diplomatic or spaceship victory. I might get it; it's down to the wire! The Babs lead on points for Histographic; the Persians lead me, barely, on the space race; and I have the UN, where the Persians keep voting for me.

 

[Foo]

I have a follow-up question along similar lines, as I've just started a new game, using the 'dense build' stragegy:

How far along do you go with the dense build? Is there a rough number of cities you build before going with more 'traditional' spacing? Or is there a rough number of years?

thx

 

[BillChin]

No, do not eliminate the cities. They are worth a ton of culture points (1000 year old cities count double), and can still produce a fair number of units and workers with a population of two or three. It takes discipline and planning to decide which cities will be trimmed and which will have pop 12+, but that is part of managing your empire.

I have no experience on a small map, but on a standard size map, I usually have as much land or more land after conquering the nearest enemy. It makes for a difficult mid-game and end-game if another AI player has done similar on another continent. However, this will be the case whatever the early strategy is. It is the luck of the draw as far as how much land you can conquer with Horsemen and galleys. (And how much your AI opponents get.)

As for the follow up question, my rule of thumb is to build the first two cities very close, and to build these first two settlers before a temple or granary. By this time, I have sent warriors out for a peek around and if there are no enemies nearby I go claim resources, or if there are no visible resources go for a more traditional four by four spacing to claim land. If there are enemies (90% of the time on standard size maps), I go locate the border and try to anticipate how much land I may be able to claim and work towards that. If there is a narrow strip of land where I can use two or four warriors to block their settlers I do so.

In one game I got an 8 x 8 square for my entire empire (standard size map). On this postage stamp, I build seven cities one space apart and attack. On another game the nearest enemy was half a world away and I build 20+ cities, nicely spaced. So play the cards you are dealt. If you get a clear map with no enemies, a relatively early switch to Monarchy can help by getting the three food from irrigated grasslands, and three shields from mines in the hills. If there are enemies, Horseback riding, Iron Working and a late switch to Republic after the wars are over, seem a better road. Be especially careful if the neighbor has a low level unique unit (Zulu, Aztec), because that usually means war is coming very early, maybe before you are ready for it.

I do not have a good answer for the endgame where there are two players left, a very strong AI, and a human each on large continents separated by a large ocean. A large scale invasion is the only answer because on Emperor the AI will win the space race. However, it takes hours of game play to build and move the number of units necessary. On a standard size map, I estimate a minimum of 80 infantry plus supporting armor and artillery, and 20 air units on five aircraft carriers plus a support fleet. And even then, the casualties are going to be astronomical as the enemy can mass all their troops with railroads. I still have a saved game with this end game situation, but am reluctant to spend what I see as 10 hours playing out a bloody war.

 

[Grotius]

Thanks for the helpful reply!