should be a small wonder and not a great wonder. Its not historically accurate to let every civ build nukes just because one has figured out how to make them. Even on the grossest level of proliferation, thats not possible. If the technology is stolen, that could be shown by the civ stealing fission from you or something. I just think the Manhattan Project would be a lot more realistic if it was a small wonder. Anyone else feel that way?
The Manhattan Project.......
- Thread starter RX2000
- Start date
Tweedledum
Prince
Yes, absolutely right.
I think I've posted this somewhere before... (but I still like being agreed with
)
I think I've posted this somewhere before... (but I still like being agreed with
)I did a search to see if anyone had posted before, but I got like 10 pages of results, and wasnt gonna sift through them all. 
Sorry if this has been posted before.
But this really does get on my nerves. Its one of the few things I find wrong with the game. (I even like culture flipping.
)
Sorry if this has been posted before. But this really does get on my nerves. Its one of the few things I find wrong with the game. (I even like culture flipping.
)
I agree that the Manhattan Project (MP) should be a small wonder for reality purposes... but I have a feeling that it was made the way it is for gameplay purposes.
If you have more production capability than the AI civs at the time, then if the MP is a small wonder, you will have an overwhelming advantage in a nuclear war. It will take the AI longer to finish the MP than it takes you to build up a large supply of ICBMs.
With the MP the way it is, smaller/weaker civs can still be a threat in a nuclear war.
Just a thought...
If you have more production capability than the AI civs at the time, then if the MP is a small wonder, you will have an overwhelming advantage in a nuclear war. It will take the AI longer to finish the MP than it takes you to build up a large supply of ICBMs.
With the MP the way it is, smaller/weaker civs can still be a threat in a nuclear war.
Just a thought...
That may be the reason, but I for one would like to see nuclear weapons handled more realisticly. If I am ahead of another civ in tech, dont I deserve to be able to hold nukes over his head while he cant get any? Thats the way it goes in the real world. Oh well, I guess I can still try and deny them rocketry and aluminum/uranium.
I at least wish they would add an option in the editor so you could flag the MP a small wonder, AND have it set to allow the production of nukes. I would edit it in a heartbeat.
I at least wish they would add an option in the editor so you could flag the MP a small wonder, AND have it set to allow the production of nukes. I would edit it in a heartbeat.
I personally think that maybe they could allow a technology to be gained from building the MP small wonder. This technology should not be able to be gained in any way other than having a civ who already has that tech to trade to you or building the MP small wonder yourself.
Forgive me if I'm confused about how this works - I haven't tested it at all. But, don't rival civs still have to have access to uranium to build nukes? And, in order to access uranium, don't they have to have researched fission? So, doesn't the Manhattan Project only make nukes available to civs that have researched fission?
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to know what's going on here...
etj4Eagle
ACME Salesman
That is true. However, the poster in question was working under the assumption that the lesser civ either already had that tech or would get it soon. But that they just did not have a good production base for cranking out a small wonder. Also the tech could always be stolen from you as well.
Masquerouge
Deity
I would rather agree with Kilroy.
And the part about the technology beign stolen adds to the point, IMHO ; after all, this is pretty much what happened in the real world (though people won't call that stealing
)
The thing is, it's much easier to do it once someone has already done it ; America didn't keep its monopole on nukes pretty long... And "small" countries lacking the production power of the US, such as France or Britain, developped it rather quickly after 1945.
And the part about the technology beign stolen adds to the point, IMHO ; after all, this is pretty much what happened in the real world (though people won't call that stealing
)The thing is, it's much easier to do it once someone has already done it ; America didn't keep its monopole on nukes pretty long... And "small" countries lacking the production power of the US, such as France or Britain, developped it rather quickly after 1945.
alexander dumas
Chieftain
Maybe completing the Manhattan Project should give you a couple of tactical nukes as a reward. Otherwise, why waste the effort of building it just to unlock the door for everyone else? Also, I haven't had any other civs threaten me because I have nukes and they don't like I remember in Civ II. I liked the old way better.
Evincar
Iron works is a legend!!
You are right. What you say is truth, but it's not ALL the truth
Sure, you must have Uranium, but, in adittion to that, you need Space Flight to make tactical nukes, and Satelites to do ICBM. So, you do need some tech.
i agree - it should be a small wonder - i understand people saying that it would give a huge advantage to the first civ to build it - but that is life - when the u.s. built the bomb, it was a huge addvantage to them - and luxembourg and greenland weren't all of a sudden able to build nukes because the U.S. was able
maybe the cost could be less for the second and third etc. countries to build it, but it should definaely be a small wonder
maybe the cost could be less for the second and third etc. countries to build it, but it should definaely be a small wonder
etj4Eagle
ACME Salesman
Another idea might be a combo great and small wonder. The Manhattan project would remain a great wonder. However, upon completion the creating civ would get the ability to build nuclear weapons while the rest of the world would get the ability to build the small wonder "A-bomb" (or something to the like).
This would also more correctly match reality where each country still needs to do work to build the bomb. However, the first country needed to do the most work (as everyone else "stole" some of the tech).
Trabpukcip
Agent of Doom
I think it's correct the it is. The truth is that after the american's did the first A-Bomb, every important civ in the real world got in less then 5 years. If you check how much time pass between each turn, well you'll see that the game isn't as far from reality as some might want to think...
true - the major players got the bomb relativey soon after the u.s. - but they also had to expend huge sums of resources to get the ability to build them - and didn't just "aquire" the ability to build them because the u.s. did
which is why it would make sense to make it a small wonder - the most advanced civs will get there the same time, and be able to start building them roughly around the same time - but the tiny civs, or the backwards civs, won't get them for a while -
which is why it would make sense to make it a small wonder - the most advanced civs will get there the same time, and be able to start building them roughly around the same time - but the tiny civs, or the backwards civs, won't get them for a while -
FacelessMan-000
Chieftain
Yeah let's do it like in real life, our nation create it and 4 years later, someone have it too by stealing it to us
Thats already the case. If you get space flight or satellites before everyone else (which I sometimes do, even on regent level) then you will have nukes before anyone else does. Why not make it a bit more realistic and have everyone make their own MP too.
explodin dog
.....
- Joined
- May 29, 2002
- Messages
- 77
yeah but you don't see all the small countries with nukes, and then why or how could a civ like the aztecs or zulus have or create nukes...? quite unrealistic, but let's hope firaxis fixes some of the things we all hate..
I am absolutely with everyone who is for historically correct civ.. i don't really want to see some dude whose UU is an impi threatening me with an ICBM...
I am absolutely with everyone who is for historically correct civ.. i don't really want to see some dude whose UU is an impi threatening me with an ICBM...
