Originally posted by mrtn
Finland was a very important part of Sweden, but there's no way it should be an independent country until 1917.
Ok ok we're acting silly.
But, yes, there is a way: :rant:
According to Swedish sagas the Finns (Karelians) sacked and razed Swedish capital in early 12th century.
Swedish-Finnish history is filled with gaps during the middle ages. This is usually agreed upon: Sweden annexed Finland with three crusades, first taking place in 1155 or 1156 AD and last 1293 AD.
It is more than possible, that Finland was a kingdom ,or a coalition of minor Kingdoms in time of the crusades. Lot has been forgotten since Sweden owned Finland for more than 650 years and the Finnish history studying and writing wasn't allowed by the Swedish Kings. Previously it was not possible because the Finns lacked the alphabet. Finnish national epic, Kalevala, was collected from Karelian rune-singers as late as 1831-1853 by Elias Lönnrot, this in times of lenient Russian sovereignty. Kalevala is a piece of paganic mythology than a history record - but since there was no chance to real history study it is the only thing which echoes something about the times before the crusades. With all respect, current version of history leans on the version written by the occupier, whose interest was to erase national sentiment in their colony.
What happened before the crusades:
- The Finns as a tribe settled Finland, cultivated it and drove the Lapps all the time further to the north. The Lapps were taxed by the Finns.
- The Finns traded with the Vikings, the Estonians and the Russians. The Finns used their money even in trade with other Finns.
- The Finns organized war campaigns against the Swedes and the Russians. War parties were greater than just a bunch of villagers and travelled long journeys.
- archeological digs in old burial grounds provide evidence of hierarchy (nobles, commons).
This timeline is from a site written by, well, a more enthusiastic countryman but checked and correct information anyway. Nordic sagas are not usually accepted as history records very easily, but e.g the Viking history is mainly written relying on their sagas.
1154 Common Era: The Arab historian and scientist, Al Idrisi tells that the King of Finland has possessions in Norway.
ca. 1200 CE: The Danish historian, Saxo Grammaticus, tells about Finnish kings.
1220 CE: The Icelandic bishop, poet, and historian, Snorri Sturluson, writes The Ynglinga Saga, in which marriages and wars of Finnish and Swedish royal families are mentioned.
1230 CE: The introduction to the Orkneyinga Saga, Fundinn Noregr, relates about the kings of Finland and Kvenland and their conquest of Norway.
MEM starts in 610 AD and the Finns were independent for another 550 years after that. Before 610 AD the Finns had settled Finland for millenia. "What is history is but a fable agreed upon?", Napoleon is alleged to have stated. This in mind, what Finland was in reality before the three crusades is _unknown_ and will most likely stay that way. Schoolbooks just can't tell the truth, because nobody knows what it was.
Of course, I'm not 100% serious that Yoda should include the Finns. The Finns were a minor tribe, but independent for half the time covered by MEM. But now, that I've at least got your facts straightened, I'll rest my case.
