The mod of mods. An interesting suggestion

Hmmm.... I have some reservations.

1. I'm not interested in participating in a "kitchen sink" mod.
2. Building on C2C is just extending C2C. I want to do something new. Something fresh.
3. I would prefer if we picked a direction and theme, and started from base BTS. Then add the goodies. The first being an AI fix.
4. I don't want to be involved in a mod that has a 500+ item tech tree. A few new items are fine, but some mods go overboard.
5. As was mentioned, you should be able to play a game in an afternoon.

[/Soap box]
 
Hmmm.... I have some reservations.

1. I'm not interested in participating in a "kitchen sink" mod.
2. Building on C2C is just extending C2C. I want to do something new. Something fresh.
3. I would prefer if we picked a direction and theme, and started from base BTS. Then add the goodies. The first being an AI fix.
4. I don't want to be involved in a mod that has a 500+ item tech tree. A few new items are fine, but some mods go overboard.
5. As was mentioned, you should be able to play a game in an afternoon.

[/Soap box]

*applauds* Well said, exactly my thoughts. :goodjob:
 
Some of the modders of C2C are thinking and allready planning the making of a new civ-like game engine besides with multithreading, better graphics, ,etc,etc,etc check out the C2C subforum for more information
 
So the goal we all share is to create and play the best possible civ game, a mod of mods that can encompass the goals and best parts of the other mods.

A 'ONE' MOD that will keep improving CIV IV and take the best ideas (not a grab bag or a collection of all the ideas) of the community and the other mods.

We probably agree on:
1. Using the best ideas that we all pretty much agree on.
2. Dream Team: give good reasons for the best modders to come together, and try to bridge the best mods so we don't have to completely start from scratch, for the purpose of creating the best possible mod and improving it.
3. Focus on a fast turn time mod that plays on older machines (probably have a lite core version)
4. Allow for the best ideas (like navigable rivers), ideas from ROM, AND, K-MOD, and C2C without having too much too handle. Take what we like and improve them, and remove the parts we generally agree that we don't like. Basically build a bridge between the best mods to improve them, and make a combined better mod. The reason not to throw away everything is because it is all potentially useful, and the reason not to include everything is because we don't want it to be bloated or overburdened. We want the ideas to improve the quality (not necessarily quantity) of the game. If the idea improves the game, it should be added, not for the sake of adding to add content.
5. Streamline it: Consider all the ideas but work hard to fit the best ones. People should be able to play a quick game or a long long game as they wish. Clear, useful options, and grouping could solve some problems. The game can be made deeper and better without getting lost in it, or removing all the ideas. Grouping and management can improve handling of many of these ideas.
6. Improved AI.
7. New expansion like major features to the point of creating a community Civ 6.
8. and much more I think we can agree on.
9. I honestly believe everyone's points and issues can be addressed you can have more ideas and content as long you don't get lost in them and as long as you can play them, have better gameplay and make it more fun.

I think every concern should be addressed so please keep your ideas and thoughts coming.
The goal is to bridge C2C, K-MOD, Legends of Revolutions, AND2.0 and the whole Civfanatics community.
It will be a fusion and a combination of mods and projects as well as a pursuit of a Community Civ 6. We are not trying to completely replace these mods or outdo them, we are trying to bring them together and make something together. C2C, for example is doing much of what this project is aimed for. Many of the mods are reinventing the wheel, adding new features and new ideas, like terrain, ai, and game mechanics. We want to debate and work these things out so it is a community creation between all of these things that removes the negatives and include the positives. To make the best mods with the best things, so we all can have a mod that we can work on together, and that we can agree is improving. We want to debate the concerns and worries so that we can overcome them, not so that we can disagree and fracture into thousands of different project. It is our purpose to unite so we can all figure out how to overcome those disagreements and have a game that we can more and more agree upon. A game that gets better and better because we are giving our best to improve it. A game that is the best Civilization and more that we can collectively dream up. Not a common denominator of the average of what everyone wants, but the challenge of coming up with the best decisions the best content, and the best choices of what to have in, and the best to remove.

Everyone should look at C2C to see what they are doing, because they are doing alot right. I completely support them. I agree with much of what people say is wrong with it as well. It is getting better. In most ways it is the best thing yet. I think we should come together to make the best game possible. Every effort should be supported. I think we get more done together. I think we should work with and bridge C2C as well as other mods. I think the whole point is to involve the best of these communities and mods so we can make something even better. Together with the best people we can solve bigger problems and make better decisions. We love many of these mods, and we even support each of them getting better. This is not a competition, this is a cooperation to make the best one, not to fight amongst them to see which one wins (we already have that). Isn't it time we collaborated, and shared our best. To cut out what we don't like and improve what we do. To share in the improvement experience. The difference in just creating a new mod with the people who want to, is that we are involving all of the best. The best people, ideas, and the best of what has already been created, so we can make it better. That is why we need the ONE mod. And that is why we should work out our differences. And that is why we should come together, for the love of Civ and for the desire to play a better game!

So I have gone ahead and set up a thread in the C2C mod-mod's forum to bridge the idea and engage the community.
Community bridge to create the Ultimate 'One' MOD and Ultimate Civ Game!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=484529[/B]
By no means is any of this set in stone. I think that no one has a perfect idea of what to do yet. We need to work together to come up with a plan better than any one of us could have made by ourselves.

Please check out this forum and help me get the plan together to further this goal. The goal should define the plan, not my interpretation of it. This is everyone's best plan, not the best compromise and average of all plans.
Ideas, disagreements we need them both. Let's focus on the positive, making this plan work, not poking holes in it. Let's build a bridge, not dig sinkholes. Let's try to figure out the best way to do this.
We want to aim for making the best game possible. It is the goal. The best of the old and the new.
Let's try to do this together and elevate the best ideas and best people, for the sake of creating the best! :)
 
I posted a new thread her with a poll and many of your comments, right future:

Here.
 
I agree with Lemon as well. Additionally, I have a couple of observations/questions..

1) I noticed in all of your statements, that it comes across as your wanting to use C2C as a basis for your mod of mods. You refer to ROM AND, K-MOD, and LOR, but I notice you do not mention any of the other great mods out there. While I do not have any problems with C2C ( with the exception of the BT problem :) ), it does seem a little presumptuous that C2C should be used as the basis for the Mod of Mods instead of a new idea or concept.

2) I followed the links that rightfuture and eduhum posted, and looked at the poll ( and voted). Please don't take this as an insult, but from the overall tone of those threads, it comes across to me as if your wanting to promote C2C as a full on expansion pack as opposed to a Mod of Mods.

3) If you do manage to get the Mod of Mods up and running, and get it finished, what are your plans for it?

Like I said, just a few questions. While I am not a modder on the scope and scale of a lot of people here, I do create scenarios for my friends and sons to play. From a personal point of view, I would hate to have my work taken from me and subsumed by someone else and taken in a different direction just because we couldn't agree on a common theme.
 
From a personal point of view, I would hate to have my work taken from me and subsumed by someone else and taken in a different direction just because we couldn't agree on a common theme.

But (while I agree with you that C2C is not perhaps the best base) the general policy here is that if you post a mod to CFC, others are free to build on it, provided they credit you.
 
But (while I agree with you that C2C is not perhaps the best base) the general policy here is that if you post a mod to CFC, others are free to build on it, provided they credit you.

I have no problem with that policy, I'm merely concerned with what happens after the completion of the project.
 
I have no problem with that policy, I'm merely concerned with what happens after the completion of the project.

WHo says it ever has to be complete? Many mods never are, and with the number of people prospectively involved in this, unless the real civ 6 is good and attracts a large portion of the civ 4 community, there will likely always be someone willing to continue working on it
If we ever get it started.
 
WHo says it ever has to be complete? Many mods never are, ...

True, but an "official" expansion should at one point in time reach a state where it can be considered finished and ready for publication. This is exactly what I meant with clear scope and focus. I think that's the subtle difference between professional game design - and just some modders (as good as each of them might be) adding stuff. If this "mod of mods" really wants to achive something like a professional product does, this is the first and most important step: setting up a project with clearly defined resources, some sort of time plan and a solid idea where it wants to go and what it wants to achieve. Have a look at all the really great and professional looking mods: RFC Vanilla, RFC Europe, Sword of Islam, FFH2, Revolution DCM, BUG, BAT, TAC, etc. - the makers all knew where they wanted to go and what they wanted to create. They had a clear vision and when they got there, they finished the project and moved on.
Bottom line: forever-work-in-progress is the direct opposite of a professional product...
 
WHo says it ever has to be complete? Many mods never are, and with the number of people prospectively involved in this, unless the real civ 6 is good and attracts a large portion of the civ 4 community, there will likely always be someone willing to continue working on it
If we ever get it started.

Legends of Revolution.
 
Isn't that what C2C is trying to do anyway?

Another word for megamod is often a kitchen sink, and that is what C2C already is. So, those who would enjoy the mod proposed here would already enjoy C2C.
 
I could have sworn I included this part, but apparently I didn't.
While remaining a reasonable size.
C2C doesn't achieve that.

Legends of Revolution then. There are still some minor errors that need to be removed, but otherwise it´s perfect.
 
I could have sworn I included this part, but apparently I didn't.
While remaining a reasonable size.
C2C doesn't achieve that.

Legends of Revolution then. There are still some minor errors that need to be removed, but otherwise it´s perfect.

Pretty much. Helps that the turn times, even on a Huge PW2 map, are very quick.
 
Legends of Revolution then. There are still some minor errors that need to be removed, but otherwise it´s perfect.

So, (serious question) legends of revolution contains Kmod AI and engine improvements, BAT o whatever the best BUG is, a reworked technology and unit tree, and multiple production and research?
That is leaving out the culture/ UU system of C2C, and probably a lot of other things I can't remember now, but if it has all those things, sure.
 
Are you bent? A good number of people don't want the culture/UU system of C2C, a reworked tech, and a reworked unit tree.

Have you even played Legends of Revolution?
 
So, (serious question) legends of revolution contains Kmod AI and engine improvements, BAT o whatever the best BUG is, a reworked technology and unit tree, and multiple production and research?
That is leaving out the culture/ UU system of C2C, and probably a lot of other things I can't remember now, but if it has all those things, sure.

Admittedly it could use Kmod´s improvements, but it has BUG included, not sure if it´s the current version though. Its technology and unit tree is mostly the same as in Standard BtS with changes where appropriate, why would you completely rebuild them from scratch anyway?
Multiple production and research are not necessarily essential when your mod doesn´t include a bazillion new units and buildings per era. ;)
Say, how exactly is C2C´s culture/UU system superior to LoR/BtS?
 
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