The most needless civs

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Tibet Sounds interesting- also from a geographical point of view- at least far better than small Korea locked in between China, Mongolia and Japan

 

[Gisli]

I believe a good lumping solution when dealing with the NA Indians is grouping them together based on their material culture rather than tribes. So you could include essentially all of eastern NA south of New York extending over to Arkansas under the generic name of Mississippian with it's capital at Cahokia. While the real culture didn't appear until about 1000 AD, most of the tribes in the area were very closely related technologically including the Cherokee. If you wanted to you could even include the Fort Ancient group (Iriquois) into the bunch. In terms of there material culture they aren't that different.

The Pueblo/Anasazi Indians would also make a good civ and were pretty advanced. Like the Mississippians they constructed on a large scale, relied on multi-crop agriculture, and had an extensive road system.

Gisli

 

[Mobilize]

Winter, even if all the Central Plains tribes joined they still wouldn't be able to hold off the Americans. Once the Leni-Lenapes, Seminole, Choctaw, Cherokee, Cree, Algonquin, Iroquois, and Shawnee failed to hold off the colonists, North America was lost. I also dislike combinations of civilizations like you had prefered. I would either make the Blackfoot, Cheyenne, Mandan, Shoshone, or Creek a civilization.

 

[The Last Conformist]

4.Dutch&Germans=>Prussia (so as to include the Austria inc.)

That's like renaming the Americans into Californians, so as to include Canada.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Well, I was imagining the entire continent joining forces to drive the invaders back into the sea not just some minor tribes- besides: The colonisation of the Northern american Continent took centuries (who loses and runs away, lives to fight another day- basically until the Iroqois have those tactical nukes )

Well, the point is that we only have so and so many civilizations to place (31)- I'd really love to crack the civ limit to place little N. Amercian civz and get most of them in- but we merely have one or two- and those won't ever be representative for all Native American 'Indians'- this is about Civilizations, therefor I got rid of a few sub-civilizations.

To the last conformist:

 

[KoRnEa]

DON'T DROP KOREA!

in the ancient times, they had Manchuria and were quite strong. In the modern age, it has the most dangerous border in the world (if there is a second Korean War, 11 million soldiers become mobilized within the first moments just from the Koreas!)


if you must drop Korea, though, how about a pan-tungustic civ, including Koreans, Mongols, and other tungustic, turkic, manchurian people?

 

[Lusikka755]

DON'T DROP KOREA!

Already did . Finns took that place.

Only one problem: Hwach'a is a little bit too cool unit to waste. Could the graphics match any other civ if I renamed it?

 

[Mobilize]

Eh.. I wouldn't drop the Koreans but if you do the best civ the Hwach'a would go to would be the Chinese for obvious reasons. Plus the Chinese had used very similar if not the same thing.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

damn- I could really do with, lets say an extra dozen small civz to place

 

[Lusikka755]

Eh.. I wouldn't drop the Koreans but if you do the best civ the Hwach'a would go to would be the Chinese for obvious reasons. Plus the Chinese had used very similar if not the same thing.

If one of the civs is a minor civ I think it's Korea. And I said that I don't really care about the world map. You know, there aren't many very major tribes in Africa or Far East...

For the other one dropped, I think it will be either Sumeria or Celts, not sure.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Already did . Finns took that place.

Would you explain the logic with replacing a small civ in an crowded corner of the world with a smaller one in an even more crowded one?

 

[Lusikka755]

Would you explain the logic with replacing a small civ in an crowded corner of the world with a smaller one in an even more crowded one?

Just look at my location and conclude yourself

And as I said, I don't really play world map games, so that doesn't bother me. I'm just trying to get the big ones of world history ( plus Finland ) in.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I concede the point, altho I've personally always wondered WTH Scandinavia is doing in the standard game.

 

[keiselhorn]

The Iroquois. They, the Sioux, any indigenous tribe you want, were never civs.

Making a confederation that broke in the first external war does not make them a civilization. Even the Mitanni (neighbors of Hitties), Goths and the Scythians are closer to a civilization than the Iroquois.

Although they've got a great UU. Historically I disapprove the Iroquois as a civ, but strategically in the game they are ok.

The other 2, I think you should withdraw civs that strategically and geographically are too distant from the new civs you intend to insert. For example, if you intend to make an African or Asian civ with an ancient/medieval UU, then nobody would miss the Americans and their F-15.

 

[The Last Conformist]

How the heck are the Scythians closer to civhood than the Iroquois? They never had any political organization comparable to the Iroquois League - indeed, their name was little more than an outsider's catch-all term for a bunch of similar tribes. They didn't even have cities.

 

[keiselhorn]

That's right, but the Scythians (and also the nomad Huns and Mongols) interacted much more with real civilizations and had much more impact in history. The Iroquois were an aboriginal tribe that started to attempt to form a state organisation before being defeated, reduced and finally destroyed by the American colonisers.

But I agree to the respect that the Scythians were also far from civhood.

 

[Pounder]

The Iroquois. They, the Sioux, any indigenous tribe you want, were never civs.

Making a confederation that broke in the first external war does not make them a civilization. Even the Mitanni (neighbors of Hitties), Goths and the Scythians are closer to a civilization than the Iroquois.

To me, I think that you are mistaking empires for Civilizations, the native North Americans had been around for thousands of years. They had traits of civilizations such as religion and agriculture. Defintely remove English Americans and keep native Americans.

I would never get rid of the Celts either, they should be starting in Austrias place as the seem to have originated in the Austria/Northern Italy area.

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

I'd keep them there and let the Iroqoise develop into Canadians, and let the "Americans" start out with Native American Flavour units...

 

[Gogf]

The most useless civ is for sure America, it's not a civ, just a colony of England.

Are you crazy!? The United States is the world's sole superpower and you call it uselses?

 

[W.i.n.t.e.r]

Well, you guys are both right: the USA is not a Civ, it is not even a nation- however It has its place in the epic game due to its importance as the world's most powerful state